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Discussion id : 109-423
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Initial post today by Witchy
I have three of these. All own root. All 3 survived winter just fine here in zone 6b. (even the tiny one I rescued from my old house in SC, that had been mowed and moved in the middle of summer) With no protection. Dingo has told me Belinda's Dream survives in Chicago just fine as well. (Zone 5) This is a tough rose for me, and I'm no expert rose grower. Maybe it's a 5b iffy rose, but it definitely doesn't need zone 7 warmth. I would plant it if I lived in 5b and wanted it.
Discussion id : 109-410
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Initial post yesterday by mmanners
So far we've only grown this as a potted plant in the greenhouse, so no garden experience. But already noticeable is its apparent resistance to powdery mildew -- plants surrounding it are showing mildew, and there's none on this plants.
Reply #1 of 1 posted yesterday by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Congrats Malcolm.

It's lovely.

Best wishes, Robert
Discussion id : 109-405
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Initial post yesterday by HubertG
From the Rosen-Zeitung Sep 1912, page 93 (Text accompanying coloured plate):

"Freiherr von Marschall (Teerose).
(Princesse Alice de Monaco x Rose d'Evian.)

Ueberall auf Rosenausstellungen, wo Rosen ausgepflanzt waren, hat man sicher auch eine Gruppe der Rose Freiherr von Marschall angetroffen. Die dunkelrote, hübsche Belaubung fiel immer schon von Weitem auf. Der Wuchs ist kräftig gedrungen. Die lange, spitze Knospe öffnet sich leicht zur gutgefullten Blume von dunkel-karminroter Farbe. Durch ihre
Reichblütigkeit eignet sie sich vorzüglich zur Gruppenbepflanzung. Die Wirkung einer solchen Gruppe ist großartig.

Die Rose "Freiherr von Marschall" eignet sich zu allen Zwecken; denn ebensogut wie sie als niedrige Rose ist, ist sie auch als Hochstamm. Aber auch als Schnittrose ist sie sehr zu schätzen. Sie remontiert gut. Auch im Winter ist sie nicht empfindlich. Herr Peter Lambert, Trier, hat 1903 diese Sorte dem Handel übergeben.
Da sie mit zu den besten Züchtungen gerechnet werden darf, verdient sie allgemeine Verbreitung."

My translation:

Everywhere at rose exhibitions, where roses were planted, one invariably finds a group of the rose "Freiherr von Marschall". The dark red, pretty foliage is always noticeable from a distance. The growth is vigorously robust. The long, pointed bud opens easily to the full double flower of dark carmine-red colour. Because of its
freedom of flowering it is excellent for group plantings. The effect of such a group is marvellous.

The rose "Freiherr von Marschall" is suitable for all purposes; It does as well as a bush rose as it does on a tall standard. Even as a cut rose it is very much appreciated. It repeats well. It is not even sensitive in winter. Mr. Peter Lambert, Trier, introduced this variety to commerce in 1903. Since it can be counted among the best of varieties, it deserves broad distribution.
Reply #1 of 1 posted yesterday by Patricia Routley
Thank you HubertG. Reference added.
Discussion id : 84-802
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Initial post 9 MAY 15 by Jay-Jay
Why oh why is this Rose called Pissarti and not Pissardii after the discoverer Pissard, like I believe it should have? Like the Purple Leaf Plum Prunus cerasifera 'Pissardii'.
In some of the References on HMF it is called Rosa Pissardii!
Reply #1 of 4 posted 2 days ago by CybeRose
The first publication of the plant and its name included a note from Pissart. Even if it was a misprint, there is nothing to be done because the name of the rose was published at that time as Rosa pissarti.

Revue Horticole, pp. 314-316 (1880)

Voici ce qu’il nous écrivait sur cette plante le 15 août 1879:
Cher monsieur Carrière, 
La magnifique espèce dont je vous ai envoyé des échantillons en fleurs et en fruits est originaire du Guiland, localité voisine de la mer Caspienne, et dont elle a été importée il y a déjà longtemps, pour orner les jardins de Téhéran, ce à quoi, du reste, elle est très-propre. Elle y pousse et fleurit très-bien, quoique la chaleur soit extrême pendant six mois, et qu’elle soit plantée dans un sol sec et pierreux, pas ou peu arrosé, et que l’hiver le thermomètre s’abaisse jusqu’à 15 degrés au-dessous de zéro. La plante devient admirable par son port élevé et ses inconvenir; elle demande à être isolée et plantée au midi. Placée sur une pelouse, cette espèce produirait un effet splendide.
Quoique la plante donne facilement et même abondamment des fruits, je n’ai jamais trouvé de bonnes graines. Je suis même disposé à croire qu’il en est ainsi partout ici, car je n’ai jamais vu de sujet provenant de semis, et les indigènes la multiplient par marcottes. 
Veuillez, etc. Pissart.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 2 days ago by Jay-Jay
I found this from the University of Wageningen ( ) : Page 61-63
De Botanische Nomenclatuur behoort niet kakistocratisch, zelfs niet democratisch (dat beteekent in dit geval: gedeeltelijk kakis-tocratisch) doch aristocratisch te zijn. Verstand en goede smaak
behooren te overwegen. Scientia amabilis! Nomen est omen, De namen weerspiegelen de botanici.
Nr. 196.
Prunus Pissardii of Pissartii
Celastrus orbiculata en articulata.
Orthographische kwesties, REHDER in Amerika, VOSS in Duitschland, schrijven, tegen de
gewoonte, Prunus Pissartii.
De soort werd door CARRIÈRE in Revue Horticole van 1881 bekend gemaakt met den naam
P. Pissardi; CARRIÈRE deelt er tevens in een noot mede, dat in den vorigen jaargang een nieuwe rozensoort bij vergissing Rosa Pissarti genoemd werd, doordat hij in de meening verkeerde, dat de naam der betreffende persoon PISSART was, terwijl het PISSARD bleek te zijn; dus moest de naam Rosa Pissardi worden.
Derhalve had REHDER, die principieel en volgens art. 57 der Internationale Regels de namen zoo houdt als ze oorspronkelijk gepubliceerd zijn, Prunus Pissardi en Rosa Pissarti moeten schrijven in zijn „Manual", doch hij schrijft Prunus cerasifera var. Pissartii BAILEY 1)
en Rosa moschata (syn. R Pissardii CARR.).
Derhalve volgt hij zijn eigen principe hier niet, noch geeft hij een goede correctie.
Wanneer men daarentegen de namen schrijft zooals zij behooren geschreven te worden in overeenstemming met de namen, waarvan zij zijn afgeleid, met de regels van het latijn en het
grieksch en met de internationale Regels en Aanbevelingen der Nomenclatuur (eenigszins geëmendeerd), dan hebben we vasten bodem onder de voeten en wordt éénheid op dit gebied
Dan moeten wij schrijven (So we have to write:)
Prunus Pissardii
Rosa Pissardii.
Reply #3 of 4 posted yesterday by CybeRose
Formal nomenclature is sometimes frustrating because of the "first published" rule. However, having waded through the many arbitrary name changes before the modern rules were established, I'm willing to accept the loss of Brontosaurus in favor of Apatosaurus. Oops! I just checked for the spelling of these names and learned that Brontosaurus is back.

Well, then ... I was annoyed when Franklinia alatamana was renamed Gordonia. But Franklinia came back, too.

Orthography differences are difficult enough when languages share an alphabet. Eschscholtzia californica is an imposing name for the little golden poppy, and is absurd because the "schsch" represents a single Cyrillic character. But it was published that way.

Even worse examples can be mentioned, such as Belamcanda chinensis being renamed Iris domestica. This happened because the first publication had an image of a Belamcanda blossom next to an orchid stem.

Sometimes I learned that a name had been changed just as I finally became confident in pronouncing the old one.

Reply #4 of 4 posted yesterday by Jay-Jay
Hi Karl,
For the record: I was just adding some info and not doubting Your input.
Thanks heaven, that the Emily Brontosaurus has it's name back again. I like it spines that look like those of Polka... or is it the other way round?
Chips, I'm mistaken too, they look like the spines on the Stegosaurus
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