[From Growing Old-Fashioned Roses, by Trevor Nottle, p. 15:] the Dutch, Flemish and French nurseryman who raised the Gallicas [didn't use the pollen daubing techniques of modern breeders, instead, the planted] the best varieties of all sorts of roses close together and [left] the skilled work up to Chance and Nature...

Very many simply collected any hips which formed, cleaned and planted the seeds, then selected anything which seemed worthwhile to them. Read old rose books. The vast majority of "new roses" were simply self seedlings of established varieties and offered nothing new, nor improved. It was in response to that, and to the importation of foreign roses unsuited for many of the American climates American rose producers banded together and formed the AARS, in an effort to filter out the undesirables.

Yes, many of the early rose hybridizers did collect hips and planted the seeds that today we would call "selfs". The theory behind the name is that the pollenating insect went from one bloom to the next on the same plant and most likely deposited pollen from the same plant to the new bloom.

Yet hybridzers also planted roses that they hoped the natural pollenators would pollenate for them near each other to develop new and different varieties of roses. They were experts at grafting the roses to rootstock they grew themselves to bring the plants to market.

There are some wonderful books written about rose history that can tell you a lot about the early hybridizers. For me, this kind of reading made growing roses just that much more interesting.

Smiles,

Lyn
helpmefind.com