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'Evelyn ™' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 119-598
most recent 24 JAN SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 1 JAN by raingreen
Doing plant torture at Santa Fe Dam, east of Los Angeles, California, having put in a 'waterless' (no water once-established) garden including roses. Evelyn looks like a plucked chicken during the long, dry summer, with defoliation, and the remaining foliage having browned edges. Honesty compels me to add the plant had powdery mildew and rust in late spring. But the canes remain healthy (little to no sunscald), even after Santa Ana winds which killed some waterless 'Graham Thomas' and a waterless 'Le Vesuve' rose. Also, doesn't really look worse than many nearby native plants including Salvia and Encelia.

This past summer of 2019 was the first for the plant to go 'waterless'. The last soaking rain was in early June, the next soak was November 21. 'Evelyn' appears to be filling out and growing vigorously, as it would in the spring. Nice finally seeing a lush plant after months of waiting. It's actually the most lush plant in the garden, other than my waterless lawn.

People say that English roses need lots of water, and I believe this is true, but here in southern California 'Evelyn' appears to be able to grow well in the winter, when rainfall takes care of it (hopefully). Once it 'cycled off' in the summer drought it was fine. It sent out basals in July but they stopped growing some weeks later, showing the compacted internodes that many roses show when stopping growth for winter.

In order to really know, the plant needs to be evaluated for 2 more years, but it appears to be a candidate for waterless gardening in Los Angeles, especially away from the fungal issues of the coast.

Nate

Edited to add 2 weeks later: it appears many of the plant's shoots are blind--while some are extending normally-- it probably won't have a full, spring like flush of flowers this winter. Maybe not perfectly adapted for 'waterless' conditions.
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Reply #1 of 9 posted 1 JAN by Nastarana
I found that some of the Austin roses were somewhat drought resistant, especially 'Evelyn' and 'Golden Celebration', which grew for me in the Central Valley into a magnificent free standing shrub the size of a small fruit tree (as did 'Polka') with almost no supplemental water.

If I may, I would urge you to not neglect so-called grey water from inside your house. No, not from the bathroom, although I have heard of some folks setting a pail on the floor of their shower, but left over cooking water such as might have been used for boiling potatoes or pasta can go on a dry plant. I used to rinse used plates and pans into a bucket, which slurry then became extra fertilizer for some favored plant. I presume you do pay for the water used inside your home. I think we might as well get as much for our H20 expense as we can. If you own your house, a water tank to catch rainwater off the roof during those occasional downpours might be a good investment.

Two found niosettes which do very well in tough growing situations are "Manchester Guardian Angel", and "Pleasant Hill Cemetary Noisette".
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Reply #5 of 9 posted 2 JAN by raingreen
Nastarana, point well taken about grey water. For most residents, it wouldn't make any sense to lose plants if they only needed a bit of watering. However, the garden in question was slated to be 'waterless' once-established, there's no going back now....because it's an educational, public garden, we have to be strict that we 'walk our talk'.

Nate
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Reply #2 of 9 posted 2 JAN by Rupert, Kim L.
What root stock are your Austins budded to, or are they own root?
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Reply #3 of 9 posted 2 JAN by Nastarana
I've not lived in CA for 10 years. As I recall, both were purchased at local nurseries. There was quite a vogue for Austin roses from about 1990 to about 2005 or so. They would almost certainly have been on Dr. Huey.
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Reply #4 of 9 posted 2 JAN by raingreen
Mine are own root. 3 David Austin varieties tested under 'waterless' conditions are Crown Princess Margareta (ugly. conspicuous dried leaves, removed in November), Graham Thomas and Evelyn; other varieties tested were Old Blush, Le Vesuve and Mrs. B. R. Cant. Out of 4 Graham Thomas, 2 died during the Santa Anas in October, and the 2 other were hardy to the tips, and are currently leafing out, not as quickly as for Evelyn. One of 2 plants of Evelyn had died upon waterless conditions in May/June but the plant had entered drought lacking in vigor, only one-half the size of the other Evelyn, probably due to inadequate soil preparation.

The natural soil on site is horrid--decomposed granite with no water retention. We brought in 18" of heavier soil and amended heavily with compost. My understanding is that moisture tends to accumulate at the boundary between the two soil types but I'm not a soil scientist. I suspected the roses would not have survived on the native, rocky soil, and it's quite clear now they wouldn't have. The roses where the soil was predominantly the native, rocky type died during the Santa Anas in October.

Don't anyone go out and try this at home unless your prepared to experiment and lose plants--results aren't established, and less than 1% of roses are suited to 'waterless' conditions in southern California. Necessary traits appear to include high heat and desiccation tolerance and the ability to grow in winter.

Nate
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Reply #6 of 9 posted 23 JAN by mamabotanica
Thanks for the info! I plan to add Evelyn to my collection of garden roses in Pasadena. Always love to hear local recommendations! And especially related to heat and drought hardiness!
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Reply #7 of 9 posted 23 JAN by raingreen
Yes, highly heat-and-drought resistant in reasonable soil, and has incredible, transcendent beauty in the spring. Be prepared for potential rust and powdery mildew in late spring. IMO not suited for 'waterless' gardens due to partially 'blind' growth upon pruning after the first soaking rain in fall. It would do better with the traditional late-January pruning and minimal (not zero) watering.

Nate
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Reply #8 of 9 posted 24 JAN by Nastarana
The winter rains are critical. I found it necessary to irrigate in winters with no rain if I wanted blooms in the spring. A thick mulch helps more than one thinks it might.
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Reply #9 of 9 posted 24 JAN by raingreen
Yes, I'm not sure what will happen in a very dry winter. What an adventure. If they are anything like the native plants they just won't grow and bloom as much. The types that don't need much pruning, like Old Blush and Mrs. B. R. Cant, may be better during the dry years because 'growth follows the knife' and if growth isn't supported with water the plants may short-circuit.

I too mulch heavily, with chipped green waste outside of the drip line and a heavy layer of high-nutrient compost underneath the plants, lighter around the root crown.
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Discussion id : 115-745
most recent 17 MAR 19 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 16 MAR 19 by Sophia's Roses
Can anyone compare the attributes of Tamora and Evelyn? I live in zone 9, East Bay Area, California. I am most likely to plant them in containers. Thank you! (I also posted this question under Tamora.)
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Reply #1 of 3 posted 17 MAR 19 by Patricia Routley
You may get the information you need under the References and/or Members Comments for both roses.
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Reply #2 of 3 posted 17 MAR 19 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
FYI, Evelyn gets large. Tamora stay short.
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Reply #3 of 3 posted 17 MAR 19 by Nastarana
Evelyn grows into a tall and narrow bush. The huge, to die for, flowers are produced on the ends of long canes. I think it shows to best advantage at the back of a border.

Tamora would be a good choice for a pot. Like many Austin roses, it does fade quickly, and benefits from afternoon shade in a bright sun climate.
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Discussion id : 105-315
most recent 11 JUL 18 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 5 SEP 17 by Lavenderlace
Very vigorous, extremely fast growth, lots of blooms in sandy soil, own-root, no-spray Z8. They are getting huge though, tall and wide.
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Reply #1 of 14 posted 5 SEP 17 by Nastarana
Along with SDLM, 'Evelyn' is the quintessential desert rose, loves sandy soils, as you say, and high temps, and seemed for me to need far less water than 'Graham Thomas'. You might also like 'Golden Celebration' if you have room for it. Those immense old gold cabbages are one of the glories of the rose world.
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Reply #2 of 14 posted 5 SEP 17 by Lavenderlace
Thanks for the tips! I thought that I didn't want any yellows, but they are doing so great here that it's hard not to love them so will check out Golden Celebration too. I stayed away from Evelyn for a while because of reports of how difficult she was but have found just the opposite.

And you're definitely right about SDLM, does great here too!
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Reply #3 of 14 posted 5 SEP 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Golden Celebration is the BIGGEST WATER and POTASSIUM HOG as own-root. Mine is 7 year-old-own-root and needs deep-watering due to its deep & large root. Folks in rainy climate complain about Golden Celebration as blackspot-prone, versus dry & hot California folks complain about its being stingy. The only time Golden Celebration was healthy for me when I got horse manure at pH 8 monthly, and piled up 1 foot of that on top. Very hard to please roses which like it cool & tons of rain & loamy & alkaline. Crown Princess Magareta is a far better choice for its tolerance of hot & dry climate, both I and KBW in Pakistan rank CPM as less fussy than Golden Celebration. Still remember buying Golden Celebration from High Country roses spring of 2011, it came with a warning, "this rose needs more water than average."

The best yellow for hot weather is Julia Child. Saw that at local rose park when it was 104 F & month-long drought with perfect foliage in full-sun. But Julia Child's scent smells like cough medicine.
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Reply #4 of 14 posted 5 SEP 17 by Lavenderlace
Thanks so much for posting your experiences Straw! Always helpful to see how roses do in different climates.
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Reply #5 of 14 posted 5 SEP 17 by Nastarana
I had GC in the Central Valley in CA in part shade and it grew as a free standing shrub to about 5' tall by about 10' wide. The neighborhood cats used to hide their kittens under its' sweeping branches. For me it needed almost no extra water after the first two seasons and had no disease beyond the touch of mildew almost all roses got in early spring in that climate. I don't remember if it was grafted or not, if it was it was on Dr. Huey. Maybe the shade helped with water requirement. You might want to try it if you can find a plant for a reasonable price; I would not want to spend the $50.+ which many nurseries are now asking for much of anything except maybe for some much coveted extreme rarity.
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Reply #6 of 14 posted 5 SEP 17 by Lavenderlace
Wow, 10' wide! That's a cute story about it making a good cat house for the kitties!
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Reply #7 of 14 posted 5 SEP 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
I posted in the wrong place, moved to Lagerfeld.
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Reply #8 of 14 posted 6 SEP 17 by Nastarana
Lavenderlace, when I lived in a desert climate, I found that winter irrigation helped a lot in keeping my roses alive through the hot summers. Winter irrigation, about once every three weeks if there is no rain, helps spread out the water bills and helps one keep plants alive without violating water restrictions.
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Reply #9 of 14 posted 6 SEP 17 by Lavenderlace
Thank you! We are in a high humidity, low rainfall area but this year has actually had more rain than usual. I agree with you about the winter irrigation, works great, but my plants are huge!
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Reply #11 of 14 posted 5 JUN 18 by Nastarana
I am glad she is doing well for you. I can't grow her where I live now, no matter what the DA org. says. I do miss those golden cabbages.
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Reply #10 of 14 posted 5 JUN 18 by Lavenderlace
Nastarana, thanks again for the tip on Golden Celebration! Shes working out great here so far and I think that I'm going to love the fragrance!
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Reply #12 of 14 posted 10 JUL 18 by Lavenderlace
Has anybody grown Evelyn in afternoon shade? I have some in the ground that are doing super in full broiling sun, But I have some full-sun pots that need to get planted but not sure if they would do as well with less sun, thanks!
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Reply #13 of 14 posted 11 JUL 18 by Nastarana
I grew Evelyn against an east facing wall and was satisfied with her performance. A wonderful rose for desert climates. Alas, she does not like my heavy soil and cold winters.
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Reply #14 of 14 posted 11 JUL 18 by Lavenderlace
Oh, that's good news, thank you! I have some sandy soil southern exposure spots, which are usually my "prime spots" but they certainly have less than full sun.
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Discussion id : 65-722
most recent 16 JUN 17 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 11 JUL 12 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Evelyn as own-root blooms welll in alkaline clay soil with healthy & glossy foliage. The repeat is fast, it lasts 4 to 5 days in the vase, if cut in bud-form. The petals are thick, so Evelyn withstands 100 degrees summer heat. The bush throws out spreading octopus canes and needs a lot of room even as own-root. The scent is floral peach. Very healthy as own-root in my dolomitic heavy clay. Blooms well if pruned back drastically, plus high potassium fertilizer.
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Reply #1 of 7 posted 30 OCT 16 by Lavenderlace
That's good to hear that she's fragrant in 100 degree heat. Do you have any other favorites for most fragrant in high temps? Thanks!
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Reply #2 of 7 posted 30 OCT 16 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
The best info. on fragrance in high heat, over 100 F is given by Khalid in Pakistan, he posted detailed info. on fragrance on his 100+ roses in Organic rose forum. His roses are grafted on Centifolia, which secretes plenty of acid, so the info. is useful for those with acidic & loamy soil.

My roses are mostly own-roots, and my soil is alkaline clay, plus my summer is mostly 80 F to 90 F. The most fragrant roses in high heat are Meilland roses (Firefighter & Dee-lish), and Romantica roses (Frederic Mistral, Liv Tyler, Bolero, Tchaikovsky, and Austin roses which prefer alkaline (Evelyn, Mary Magdalene, Pat Austin, Radio Times).

I find that heat doesn't affect the scent as much as soil pH and chemistry. Take Comte de Chambord, an Old Garden rose .. once I make the soil acidic & loamy plus chicken-manure, the scent is fabulous in high heat near 90's. Old Garden roses prefer acidic pH like that of rain water (pH 5.6).
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Reply #3 of 7 posted 30 OCT 16 by Lavenderlace
I had seen Khalid's observations and that was actually one of the reasons that I planted Ebb Tide, plus the raves on the fragrance. Thanks again for all of your tips!
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Reply #4 of 7 posted 15 JUN 17 by Lavenderlace
Update: My Evelyns are doing great in sandy soil. Very vigorous, healthy, and lots of blooms.
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Reply #5 of 7 posted 16 JUN 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Lavenderlace: Evelyn with large & dark green & glossy foliage blooms great with my alkaline soil & water for the past 6 years as own-root. It blooms even more once I made my clay more loamy (mix in pine-bark). I also fix my alkaline tap water with sulfate of potash & gypsum to prevent thin & weak stems.

Received 8 roses today 6/15 from Roses Unlimited Summer sale: Madame Earnest Calvat (pale & large leaves), James Galway (pale & large leaves), The Dark Lady (small leaves, medium-green, many blooms), The Squire (larger & DARK GREEN leaves, many blooms), Marie Daly (PALE tiny leaves, lots of buds), Anna's promise (medium-green leaves), Twilight Zone (almost thornless, medium-green, LARGE & thick leaves), Sutter's Gold (pale, very large, glossy leaves, zero blooms).

Marie Daly and the Dark Lady both have small & pale leaves, means I have to make my soil loamy & fast-draining. Marie Daly is an Earthkind & drought-tolerant rose and The Dark Lady has Rugosa heritage.

My code for OWN-ROOT roses: PALE LEAVES prefer loamy soil & acidic rain. DARK-GREEN prefer heavy/alkaline clay GLOSSY: best with partial shade & wet & need more solid minerals. TINY LEAVES prefer loamy & drought-tolerant (species). LARGE LEAVES = vigorous & deep root. THICK LEAVES = heat tolerant.

My Prediction: the pale ones with zero blooms will need added sulfate of potash & gypsum to fix alkaline tap water. Tiny leaves is best in loamy/sandy soil. The large leaves (Madame and James and Sutter's Gold) will have deep & big & vigorous root. The dark-green leaves The Squire and medium-green Anna's promise will bloom well in my heavy clay.

Large, thick, pale leaves but less-thorn Twilight Zone: I hope it doesn't have multiflora genetics (needs acidic rain & cool). I already had Mary Daly before: needs loamy soil & acidic rain, thanks to its VERY PALE & tiny leaves. Sutter's gold leaves are pale, but LARGER & THICKER than Bronze Star, so it'll be deeper root & heat-tolerant. Bronze Star was a big water-hog & could not bloom unless 24/7 rain. Sutter' Gold has glossy leaves, best in partial shade.
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Reply #6 of 7 posted 16 JUN 17 by Lavenderlace
These are great guidelines, thank you! I can't wait to hear your reports on Sutter's Gold's fragrance. If Twilight Zone is anything like Ebb Tide here, it should be able to handle the heat. Heat index is 108 today and Ebb Tide is loaded with blooms.
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Reply #7 of 7 posted 16 JUN 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Thanks for the info. I updated my code for own-roots-preference. Twilight Zone has Ebb Tide as its parent, and the leaves of Twilight Zone are quite thick like Sutter's Gold, but not as large nor glossy. Barbra Streisand's leaves are large & thick, but its downfall is glossy, so that can't handle full sun above 90 F. Thick leaves can handle heat, but glossy leaves are best in partial shade. Glossy leaves retain & need lots of water. In this hot & dry weather, the bunnies devour ALL the leaves from my glossy-FlowerCarpet, but left Lynnie (large leathery foliage) alone. I leave water out for bunnies, but they prefer to "eat" their water, rather than drink !!
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