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'Souvenir de la Malmaison' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 146-130
most recent 17 JUN HIDE POSTS
Initial post 17 JUN by Pereirelover
After thirty years of growing roses I decided to buy SDLM. I waited this long because I was really afraid the balling issue would be a problem. But the past 20 years our summers have become drier and warmer in Flanders!, Belgium, especially the last decade. I bought one in March of this year and planted it in a very big terracotta pot. It came to me as a really small and thin plant and I was afraid it would be a failure. But I gave it a shot. It got plenty of water and food and in April it had three nice stems and the buds appeared. At that moment she produced a stunning five new shoots from the base. Because of the wet April she got Mildew which I countered with spraying a milk based solution. In May rain stopped and we got a hot and very dry seven weeks. Malmaison got plenty of water and food and her buds finally opened. No balling whatsoever, no these buds opened up perfectly. Small blooms but the bush was still young with thin canes. The blooms were perfection, nicely quartered with a very very light flesh pink shade. In the hot weather they turned to white rather soon. So many is written about her fragrance so I was curious. I could smell a moderate ripe banana fragrance. It smells like no other rose actually. As I type this she's really going strong with 15 flowers open at this moment. I'm exited to see what she's gonna do the coming summer months. Oh, I don't prune her, that's forbidden.
Discussion id : 140-451
most recent 24 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 10 APR by Pereirelover
Is there a link to that 2006 genetic study? Thx
Reply #1 of 14 posted 10 APR by jedmar
You can read the full text on Researchgate:
Reply #2 of 14 posted 11 APR by Margaret Furness
Mostly out of my depth but fascinating. Question: does anyone know what the Parks' Yellow grown in the Fineschi garden then looked like?
Reply #3 of 14 posted 12 APR by jedmar
It was the rose in commerce - the probable 'Fée Opale'
Reply #4 of 14 posted 12 APR by Margaret Furness
Thank you.
Reply #5 of 14 posted 13 APR by Margaret Furness
Another question, probably simplistic, for anyone with the science background. Two speculations:

If Souv de la Malmaison is well over half Tea, does that mean that the "Bourbon" parent Mme Desprez was half Tea or thereabouts? There is speculation, in one reference stated as fact, that it was part Noisette.

OR: Souv de la Malmaison has been shown to be triploid. So: if it had two sets of chromosomes from the Tea parent, would that explain why it is more than half Tea?

Mme Desprez is no longer for sale from any nursery listed on hmf: it is said to be at l'Hay, but I read that its ID is questionable.
The pollen parent (unnamed) is said to be Tea or a seedling of a Tea, and is not available for study.

Either way it would explain why it thrived in the Australian tropics near Mackay, albeit in a wind-tunnel valley some distance from the coast.
Reply #6 of 14 posted 13 APR by jedmar
DNA of the grandmother Rose Edouard has been checked - the comparison with SdM might be interesting
Reply #7 of 14 posted 17 APR by Pereirelover
Thank you. So if I'm correct Malmaison is closely related to Safrano, President and Triomphe de Luxembourg?
Reply #8 of 14 posted 18 APR by Margaret Furness
I won't speculate on that, but point out that Triomphe du Luxembourg in commerce is not correct, and President is questioned too.
Reply #9 of 14 posted 18 APR by Pereirelover
I thought that Triomphe de Luxembourg Was Rodologue Jules Gravereaux but only in Australia?
Reply #10 of 14 posted 18 APR by Margaret Furness
No, unfortunately some very relevant comments aren't easily seen in the T du L file unless you look at comments on the old illustration. Could they be transferred to the general comments?
Reply #11 of 14 posted 18 APR by jedmar
We cannot see relevant comments in the old illustration of TdL. Which photo number is meant?
Reply #12 of 14 posted 18 APR by Margaret Furness
In particular, the comment from Billy Teabag: "Two plants of the same rose have been noted and photographed at the Europa Rosarium, Sangerhausen, one labelled 'Triomphe du Luxembourg', the other labelled 'Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux'.
The rose in question does not match detailed descriptions of the original 'Triomphe du Luxembourg' and that has to be eliminated as the correct identity.
The dearth of information and detailed description of 'Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux' makes it difficult to be confident that the second label is the correct identity, but it certainly seems a closer match.
"The rose in commerce as Triomphe du Luxembourg" was originally sourced from Sangerhausen and can be seen in public and private gardens all over the world."
Reply #13 of 14 posted 18 APR by jedmar
Thank you, comment added as a note.
Reply #14 of 14 posted 24 APR by Pereirelover
Thank you.

I've planted three Triomphe de Luxembourg roses last fall from Lens Roses in Belgium. The new growth is thin and red so it's very Tea like. We'll see how the blooms turn out. I wouldn't mind if they are in fact Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux as I like that bloom very much. We have a completely enclosed south facing garden in Leuven, Belgium and it gets really hot in summer. So we took the decision to try Teas, Climbing Tea Noisettes like Maréchal Niel, Mme Bérard, Rêve d'or etc..
Discussion id : 135-124
most recent 16 NOV HIDE POSTS
Initial post 16 NOV by Ericchn
My Souvenir de la Malmaison’s bloom hardly balls despite the high humidity this autumn whereas many modern varieties have the balling trouble.
Discussion id : 106-069
most recent 15 MAY 22 SHOW ALL
Initial post 18 OCT 17 by NikosR
(How) are we sure that the referenced parent of this rose is the reddish bourbon 'Madame Desprez' and not the white China by the same name and breeder?
Reply #1 of 3 posted 19 OCT 17 by jedmar
We cannot be sure. The first time 'Mme Desprez' has been mentioned as parent of SdlM is in 1879, 35 years after the rose was introduced. Hearsay or based on lost documents, who knows? However, SdlM was from the very beginning listed as a Bourbon rose. It then makes sense that at least one of its parents was a Bourbon. As roses are very variable it is not surprising when a red rose has white offspring.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 20 OCT 17 by NikosR
Thank you. My question was a bit sneaky.. Being a progeny of a China and a Tea would go far in explaining this rose's atypical bush form, habit and floriferousness for a 'bourbon' IMO.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 15 MAY 22 by CybeRose
The 1879 reference goes into more detail:
Journal of Horticulture, 37:147-148 (1879)
M. Beluze, sen., Rose-grower at Lyons, sowed in the year 1840 a number of seeds which produced the magnificent Rose under consideration. Two years later the raiser was in a position to affirm that something very exceptional had come to light, although at that time he had but one flower, and that one the solitary shoot of the parent plant itself only 13 inches high. This acquisition was brought under the cognisance of the distinguished rosarian M. Plantier, who at once pronounced it to be the best introduction of the times. The flower is distinguished by its rare perfection of form and colouring, yet the first flower was but little over an inch in diameter; but when buds were inserted on strong Bengal stocks the result was natural-sized flowers averaging 3 inches in diameter. That was in the year 1843, the year it was sent out. The most important question, however, was to determine of which variety the seeds which produced this flower were saved. After several delays the Horticultural Society of the Rhone convened several meetings to take this matter into consideration, and ultimately came to the following conclusion: That as seeds of Roses are, except in rare instances, not sown as so many different varieties, it follows that each pan contained the seed of one class. It is therefore not quite certain, though extremely probable, that Souvenir de la Malmaison is the offspring of the Bourbon Rose Madame Desprez; and that is the opinion of the raiser himself, further strengthened by M. Plantier.

If this assertion requires further proof it will be found in the fact that nearly all the seeds gathered and sown came from Madame Desprez, and it will be found upon careful examination that there is a great similarity of habit and foliage between the two varieties. The Bourbon Roses Jaquard [Jacquard], Cendres de Napoleon, Etoile du Berger, raised previous to Souvenir de la Malmaison, are all the offspring of Madame Desprez. The parent plant of Souvenir de la Malmaison still exists at Lyons, where it continues to flourish in spite of being cut down for propagation and growing in a position not at all favourable to it—that is, facing the south. Still growing against the wall where it was first planted out in 1841, this knotty old lady, whose children are to-day distributed throughout the world, still blooms very abundantly, notwithstanding that she had to endure the hardest winters and such severe gales that everything was swept away except one or two eyes at the base.

Souvenir de la Malmaison, with its great massive flowers, white slightly diffused with flesh colour, of admirable form, will always retain the exclusive privilege of being a gem of the very first water, esteemed and sought after by the lovers of Roses of all nations, who continue to find in this remarkable variety a full supply of suitable Roses which help to enrich the choicest bouquets at all seasons—(Journal des Roses.)
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