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'Frisco ®' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 13-961
most recent 22 MAR 08 SHOW ALL
Initial post 8 SEP 06 by Rosamundi
Treloar's Nursery catalogue lists this as the sporting parent of Abracadabra.  Is this true?
Reply #1 of 9 posted 21 JUN 07 by Mike Gleason's Rose Gardens
Here is the lowdown;

Black Beauty (HT) is a sport of Frisco.
Hocus-Pocus (HT) is a sport of Black Beauty. This has a bad tendancy to revert back to its parent, Black Beauty, which in turn is an absolutely gorgeous rose!
Abracadabra is a sport of Hocus-Pocus. It is much more stable than its parent.
Reply #2 of 9 posted 30 DEC 07 by Rosaholic's Southern California Garden
So . . . how can a floribunda (or sweetheart), as Frisco is called, have a sport that is classed as a hybrid tea? Which one is wrong?
Reply #3 of 9 posted 31 DEC 07 by Cass
Black Beauty was wrong on HMF. We can read now that it was patented as a Floribunda.
Reply #4 of 9 posted 31 DEC 07 by Rosaholic's Southern California Garden
Thank you. Then what about Abracadabra and Hocus Pocus, both of which are also sports of Frisco? Are they correctly classed as hybrid teas? I have grown both of them, and they seem more like mini flora-sized roses to me. They are both quite small for hybrid teas. Floribunda would work, if it was based on size of bloom alone, but there are no sprays. (Indeed, the mini-flora Memphis Music, which I have, is identical in size, shape and growth habit as Abracadabra and Hocus Pocus.) It really makes one wonder.
Reply #5 of 9 posted 31 DEC 07 by Cass
Classification upon registration is more or less at the discretion of the hybridizer. But if you're pointing out that these roses are a complicated mix, that's certainly true. And as florists' roses, they would have plenty of opportunity to sport. Neither Korpocus/HOCUS POCUS nor Korhocsel/ABRACADABRA is patented or registered. Given the German system of rose classification - both are simply cut roses sold by Kordes - we are essentially guessing about their classification. Someone guessed Hybrid Tea, but he or she could (and probably should, based on lineage) have guessed Floribunda. The Kordes website is working poorly today, for some reason, but you can search both roses using the code names in google and get the Kordes display page in English.

The parent rose, FRISCO is the product of a complicated cross of Hybrid Tea and Floribunda heritage --
( New Day [ reg. HT] X (Minigold [unreg. cluster-flowered] X Banzai '76 [reg. HT]) X ANTIQUE SILK [pat. HT]

If HOCUS POCUS and ABRACADABRA remain unstable sports, they won't qualify to be patented. I've corrected HMF to reflect that neither is registered.
Reply #6 of 9 posted 31 DEC 07 by Mike Gleason's Rose Gardens
I would not classify Abracadabra as unstable at all. I have never has a bloom off my plants revert, which is quite contrary to Hocus Pocus.
Reply #7 of 9 posted 22 MAR 08 by Michael Garhart
If the idea for floratea had ever passed in the 1980s (think roses like Kardinal 85, Kanegem, French Lace, etc), a rose like this would have fit. The lineage is littered, with the exception of New Day, with larger floribundas and smaller HT types that have been intermixed. Antique Silk, for example since it is a parent of this, is fairly much a vanilla white version of Kanegem. It has hybrid tea like blooms and habit on a floribunda-sized plant with floribunda sized blooms.

What would be hilarious (or sadly chaotic, take your pick) is if the floratea class idea had become a reality while we now have the miniflora class. People would be even more confused!
Reply #8 of 9 posted 22 MAR 08 by Cass
Are most of the florists' roses sold as "Spray Roses" this same type?
Reply #9 of 9 posted 22 MAR 08 by Michael Garhart
It depends because roses in the greenhouse are larger than when grown outside. I think a rose like Antique Silk would be sold as a small single stem rose. I know that Abracadabra is sold as small singles & they're of similar size.
Discussion id : 24-528
most recent 5 MAR 08 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 5 MAR 08 by Mike Gleason's Rose Gardens
The patent has expired for this rose, so I have done some experimenting with rooting it, and I am happy to say it is extremely easy to propagate.
Discussion id : 23-264
most recent 30 DEC 07 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 30 DEC 07 by Jardin de Bruno V
superbe rose à bouquet vendue comme telle et assez difficile à bouturer. Elle aime la chaleur...
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