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'Madame Wagram, Comtesse de Turenne' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 105-242
most recent 1 SEP HIDE POSTS
Initial post 1 SEP by AndrewBarocco
After seeing this rose in person at least once a week, and based off of the references, I can say that this rose should also be classified as a Hybrid Bourbon.
Discussion id : 90-579
most recent 26 JAN 16 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 26 JAN 16 by Give me caffeine
The current description page says "Height of up to 6' 7" (up to 200 cm). Width of 3' (90 cm)." which seems to contradict people's experience of how this rose actually grows. Judging from the comments, the height and width in the current description might be better reversed.

How large, and wide, does this thing actually get if given a chance?
Discussion id : 42-558
most recent 3 JUN 11 SHOW ALL
Initial post 17 FEB 10 by Margaret Furness
The rose I have as Mme Wagram is certainly not a climber. What is other people's experience?
Reply #1 of 6 posted 18 FEB 10 by Cass
Mme Wagram is not classified as a large-flowered climber. Some classification systems call Hybrid Teas "Large Flowered."
Reply #2 of 6 posted 1 JUN 11 by Speckled_Hen
I'm curious about this too. The description says that it's habit is climbing. Other people elsewhere have mentioned that theirs is short. One woman said hers grew like a groundcover and she called it "the Pancake." I'm needing a nice shrubby pink rose to take the place of my Duchesse de Brabant - something perhaps 4-5' tall and wide. I love this rose but I'm concerned about the conflicting info I'm reading about her growth habits. Anyone else have experience growing this rose?
Reply #4 of 6 posted 2 JUN 11 by billy teabag
Mme Antoine Mari is good - healthy and mannerly. Souvenir de St Annes is a great shrub rose too.
Reply #3 of 6 posted 2 JUN 11 by billy teabag
It's hard to think of the rose we know under this name as a climber, but some of the early refs do refer to it as a climbing rose.
The most mature plants I know tend to grow quite low and wide - throwing out moderately long, strong, rigid canes horizontally. Perhaps this length of cane might be interpreted as a climbing cane but it's not a typical climber by any stretch.
Many who grow it find it a bit awkward and out of place among more typical Tea roses.
Some who grow the rose cut the long sideways growth back regularly to keep it within bounds (and reduce the tripping hazard!), but a lot of bloom is sacrificed in the process.
The bloom is lovely though - and the perfume's sweet.
Here's a description from the 1901 Dingee & Conard catalogue (have added to refs) where it is referred to as a climbing rose:
"A remarkable new climbing rose - Madam Wagram or Climbing Paul Neyron, No 162 (Bernaix). - This is perhaps the most extraordinary Rose introduced in many years. The originator places it among Tea Roses, although in his description he himself says that it is one of the largest Tea Roses with Hybrid Perpetual blood. Indeed it is a very large Rose, nobly formed and well filled with firm, broad petals. The bud is round and thick and stands erect on a firm stem. The flower reminds one of that great Rose Merveille de Lyon, so large is it, in fact, it is almost as large as Paul Neyron; opens freely and endures well on the stem when cut. Color fresh satiny rose passing into fleshy and Chinese red, with a silvery sheen over-spreading the whole; edge of petals appears white. It is a strong grower and more after the the type of the Hybrid Tea and Hybrid Perpetual than a Tea Rose. It is a grand rose for all general purposes and, like many others, must be seen before its real value will be recognised by hesitating lovers of the Rose. It will, however, attain success. The genuine stock is very scarce. 25 cts. each; 3 for 60cts; two-year-old plants, 50 cts. each."
Reply #5 of 6 posted 2 JUN 11 by Speckled_Hen
Excellent information - thank you Billy. I'd no idea it had a bit of Hybrid Perpetual in it - perhaps that would explain the unusual growth and the occasional long awkward cane. I'm more intrigued than ever about this rose now. I'd read that she had a bit of Bourbon in her. Seems she is rather unique and complex, exceptionally fragrant and beautiful. She seems a little too awkward however for the spot I've chosen for her, right beside my front path. I really do need something tidier and reliably shrubby in form. I've taken your recommendation for Mme. Antoine Mari into consideration. I hadn't considered her before because she does look a bit too pale in color and the description says she has only mild fragrance. Have you found her to have decent fragrance? Souv. de St. Annes wouldn't work b/c I need a pink - this will be right next to a white Prosperity rose and diagnonally from a Cramoisi Superieur so I need a good medium pink or pink blend. I'm leaning now toward Maman Cochet but if Mme. Antoine Mari has good fragrance I might consider her.

Thanks again for the valuable info from the Dingee and Conrad cataglogue. I loved the pricing detail at the end. What a deal - I'll take 3 for 60 cents! ;)
Reply #6 of 6 posted 3 JUN 11 by billy teabag
You're most welcome.
'The Pancake' is a great description. The plant at Araluen has been christened 'The Tripping Rose' by one of the volunteers for the same reason.
Mme Antoine Mari IS pale. It makes a lovely garden specimen but if you're looking for a more definite pink, it's not going to fit the bill. It's moderately fragrant but subtly so. I'd grow this one for its looks (blooms and foliage are both v. lovely and complement each other in a special way) and picking buds rather than its fragrance.
I don't think you'd ever regret growing Maman Cochet.
Other brighter pink / pink blend Teas with great! fragrance are Mrs BR Cant and the rose listed as General Tartas in the USA (this one may still be commerce as "Huntington Mme de Tartas" (or just Mme de Tartas) - we have it as "Not Souvenir d'un Ami" in Australia).
The McClinton Tea is a healthy, charming pink rose with very good foliage and probably not as hard to keep to 5' x 5' as the others.
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