HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
|
|
|
"Bishop's Lodge Linton Gold" rose Reviews & Comments
-
-
|
I have added Princess Beatrice (tea, Bennett, 1887) to the list of possible identifications. The colour is about right, the glandular pedicel is right, there are red stems illustrated. However, there is a discrepancy with the illustrated leaf surface with its veins. The foundling’s leaves are quite smooth.
|
REPLY
|
|
Just took a look at the photos. This thing is rather spiffy. Does it have any scent?
|
REPLY
|
|
Princess Beatrix was said to have pink edges to the petals. I don't think my "Smart's Rose" has, but there are no flowers on it at present. I'll post hip photos tomorrow.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#3 of 14 posted
8 MAY 20 by
 HubertG
|
Patricia's photo of 24 Oct 2011 reminded me a bit of 'Alexander Hill Gray' with the same red new foliage, small clusters and similar habit, so I wondered if it might be an Alexander Dickson II rose since Dickson was supposed to have used a lot of the same seedling lines in his breeding programme. However, then I notice some of the photos here have a somewhat glossy foliage, making me think it might have Pernetiana blood, and other photos show more matte foliage, and also that BL Quiet Reflections and BL Linton Gold are merged in the one file. They are the same rose? The references list one as a Tea and one as an HT. Is this correct? How could the people at Bishop's Lodge name the same rose twice? And if they are different which one is "Smart's Rose"?
|
REPLY
|
|
Early in the work on the Bishop's Lodge roses, many were called Teas (and still are by some people, wishful thinking) that are now considered to be HTs. I haven't seen a Tea name suggested for "BL Linton Gold" before.
They may not have recognised two roses as being the same for a while if one was really struggling when first found.
As far as I know the only unknown Teas there are "BL Ah Mow" and "BL Jane Isabella Linton". "BL Amelia Anderson / Amy" is William R Smith.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#5 of 14 posted
8 MAY 20 by
HubertG
|
Thanks, so they are definitely the same rose.
Maybe 'Aspirant Marcel Rouyer' might also be a contender. There are a few good early photos in that file.
|
REPLY
|
|
Give me caffeine - sorry, I don’t know if it has any scent or not. I tend to concentrate on things I can actually see, rather than what I think I can smell.
Margaret - ‘Princess Beatrix’was said to be “edged very tenderly with pink”, “slightly laced or coloured with rose” and “edges bright tender pink. I would describe my plant as “edged very tenderly with pink”. It is an imperceptible merging of the yellow and pink and that touch of pink is why I love this rose so much. Quite possibly it is a feature that fades quite quickly as I do not see it in most other photos. I do see it in :
Eric Timewell’s Maddingly Park 2013 bud photo of “Linton Gold”;
my November 13, 2010 bloom photo;
and my photo of "Smart's Rose".at Ruth Egerton-Warburton's, 'Brackenhurst' garden at Bridgetown, November 1, 2007.
The foliage puzzles me. It is smooth, grey-green and matte. It is certainly not the deep green and shiny Pernetiana leaf of ‘Peace’. The new young red foliage points the way to tea ancestry. (I am reminded here of the redness in the new foliage of “Fake Perle” and “Wood Street Buff Yellow’s” smooth lustre).
I have added everybody’s suggestions to the main page. If anybody sees anything that should eliminate some of these, please Comment.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#7 of 14 posted
9 MAY 20 by
HubertG
|
Patricia, I didn't mean to suggest that it might be 'Alexander Hill Gray', just that it had some similarities with it and that perhaps it was another Dickson rose of that era. So you can remove that from the list of possibilities.
Regarding matte leaves - some of the photos here have a distinct sheen on them, perhaps not glossy, but not matte either. Maybe that's just the angle of the light or maybe it's a cultural factor, but it does make me wonder a little if these aren't two roses after all. I grow none of them - just commenting on the photos.
|
REPLY
|
|
Thank you HubertG. ‘Alexander Hill Gray’ removed.
I only grow “Smart’s Rose” and I like that term “smooth lustre”.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#9 of 14 posted
9 MAY 20 by
HubertG
|
Thanks.
The photo from Eric Timewell id239544 (20 Oct 13) is of a large bush of "Linton Gold" at Bishop's Lodge itself and it appears to have somewhat shiny foliage. I can't see any bristles on the pedicels but they may still be there.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#10 of 14 posted
9 MAY 20 by
HubertG
|
Maybe 'Mrs. Wemyss Quin' from Alexander Dickson, 1914 might be another possibilty to consider.
|
REPLY
|
|
It certainly is. I’ve added it to the list.... along with a couple of references.
|
REPLY
|
|
I have considered Mrs. Wemyss Quin and added more references. I doubt very much if this deep green foliaged Pernetiana with orange guard petals is the identification of “Smart’s Rose”.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#13 of 14 posted
12 MAY 20 by
HubertG
|
The descriptions of "varnished" foliage of 'Mrs. Wemyss Quin' cast the most doubt for me too. Varnished sounds really shiny. 'Mrs Wemyss Quin' would be a great foundling to rediscover though.
I'll throw Dickson's 'Mrs. MacKellar' of 1915 into the ring, although it may be a bit too pure of a yellow to be "Smart's Rose". It seemed to be popular in Australia.
Also maybe 'Lady Greenall' might be a possibility.
|
REPLY
|
|
We’re always happy to receive references for roses such as ‘Mrs. Mackellar’ and ‘Lady Greenall’,
|
REPLY
|
-
-
|
Re the 2003 reference. The 1912 date sits well with 'Herzogin Maria Antoinette', introduced by Hazlewood in 1912.
|
REPLY
|
|
The colour is promising and unusual. Eric's description of a plant reaching 6' doesn't fit the HMA references, but it is low-growing in my garden.
|
REPLY
|
|
HMA.? I suspect this should be HRiA (for Heritage Roses in Australia).
"Smart's Rose" on Fortuneana rootstock is low growing for me too - under one metre.
|
REPLY
|
|
No, I was just being too lazy to write in full Herzogin Maria Antoinette.
|
REPLY
|
|
Spelling things out makes things very clear, especially for international members.
I passed my original plant of "Smart's Rose" today and was surprised to see it is about 1.5 metres high, not under a metre.
It came on Fortuniana rootstock in 2003, and moved to its present position in 2007.
My second plant is on its own roots and when I planted it in 2010, I took a shortcut and didn't really prepare a good root-run. It is really only about half a metre.
I think.....the Bishop's Lodge roses might be on Dr. Huey rootstock. What is your plant on, Margaret?
|
REPLY
|
|
Mine is on Fortuniana, which may cramp its style in my slightly-acid clay soil.
The one at Renmark is on its own roots. One "B L Linton Gold" is on multiflora, which isn't ideal for Renmark's alkaline sand, and there is another on Dr Huey. All those three have competition from trees. I'll need to check the height of one which tends to be overlooked.
|
REPLY
|
-
-
|
'Lucile Barker', 1922 from Elisha J. Hicks, the breeder who discovered 'Lady Hilingdon Climbing' in 1917, is one to consider for "Smart's Rose" (syn "Bishop's Lodge Linton Gold").
|
REPLY
|
-
-
|
‘Mme. Ravary’ makes interesting reading for those interested in “Smart’s Rose” (syns: “Bishop’s Lodge Linton Gold”; “Bishop’s Lodge Quiet Reflections”). Mostly ‘Mme. Ravary’ was said to be a hybrid tea, but with tea in its make-up, and I note here “Quiet Reflections” was once said to be a tea.
‘Mme. Ravary’ certainly got to Australia in the early 1900’s. The stems were thorny (as with the foundlings). The early references do say it was orange-yellow - in 1926 it was being colour-compared with ‘Mrs. Dunlop-Best’. ‘Mme. Ravary’ seemed to lose its strong colour quickly. I have noticed a loss of colour in “Smart’s Rose” – see my photos 116 001 and 116 004. And see some of the photos from Cree and Margaret which appear to be almost cream.
Against this identification are the references in which ‘Mme. Ravary’ was said to have long buds and I think the foundlings’ buds are short-ish.
No reference mentions the reddish new foliage of the foundlings. – see my photo 116 006.
And Jack Harkness in 1978 did say he recalled ‘Mme. Ravary’ as being light chamois pink.
My main hesitation comes from the 1899 date. The foundling is such a strong yellow that I feel that it must be a rose from after ‘Souvenir de Claudius Pernet’, 1910.
Any thoughts?
Does anybody have photos of the ‘Mme. Ravary’ growing at Cavriglia (see 1999 ref)
|
REPLY
|
|
|
