The traits seem to imply it is at least a descendent of Rosa multiflora (that does not rule out other types, as well), and that a European rose more complex than Old Blush was involved. Beyond that, I cannot tell by phenotypical traits alone.
I'm not seeing the fuzzy prickles on China Doll/Cl.CD that I am on the photos of PM. They do have a similar petal shape, form, and that color dense line down the center of the petals, but just too different in color. PM seems to have slightly more rugose foliage indentations, but they seem to have similar waxy enamel and sheen.
A lot of descendants of Turner's Crimson Rambler and Suberb pass on that strange fuzzy prickled peduncle trait. There are so many and they sport so often that proper ID may prove difficult.
The fuzzy prickled peduncles seem to be static in the photos on HMF from 4 gardens. Unsure of each growers climate. This odd trait seems to be rare. In one of the photos, it almost reminded me of moss roses. It makes me wonder if the OGR crossed into multiflora descended from Rosa rubiginosa, Rosa centifolia , or Rosa fedtschenkoana.
Yes Robert. I’ve seen a lot of this in Australia. If the “precious” old foundling is selling well and raising funds for…whatever, there is no way that conversation will be entered into.
Yeah, I strongly feel it was something once common as well. What that is, I don't know. I often see ramblers on old homesteads in NW Oregon. But I don't feel like going to inspect it, risking leaving with shotgun particles in my rear lol.
They are not the same rose. Really. Order one each from Antique Rose Emporium. Plant them, and you will see the difference eventually, if not right away.
I've also grown both and agree that they are quite different. To a casual observer, they may seem quite similar but to someone growing them who is hands on with their roses, you can definitely see the differences.
But I will tell you that friends who saw my old Pinkie and remember it (it does make quite an impression on people) at my former home and have come to visit us at our current home in Newburyport and see our Peggy often ask if I dug her up and brought her with me when I moved here.
Just wanted to say that the official description here from Chamblee's says that this rose is fragrant and produces hips, but that really is not the case, at least not in my experience. We got ours from Antique Rose Emporium and they list it as having no scent or hips and that is essentially what we have found. This is, however, the ultimate vigorous, hardy rose, but definitely prone to fungus in the rain - although it seems to simply shake it off, never loses a leaf, and new growth is unaffected.
Ours blooms heavily in the spring, lightly in the fall, and so far, nothing in between, but this is only our third season with it. That, however, is what we have expected based on the descriptions from the commercial growers and the Peggy Martin website.
Also, I've grown Pinkie in the past - had an enormous Pinkie climber at my former home, and I definitely agree, they may look the same to the casual observer but they are very different to someone who knows their own roses..... I can tell the difference immediately, but I can't tell you how many people have seen our new Peggy and have asked, oh did you dig that up and bring it with you when you moved???? (No, we didn't!)
