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'Baronne Prévost' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 101-153
most recent 21 JUN 17 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 21 JUN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
1. Does this plant have extra prickly mid-ribs on the undersides of the leaves?
2. Could someone please post some pictures of the new growths of this plant?
Discussion id : 100-595
most recent 8 JUN 17 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 8 JUN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Could anyone please tell me if this rose suckers on its own roots?
Reply #1 of 4 posted 8 JUN 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Will ask my friend who gave ma a big rooting of Baronne Prevost, she grows it for years in her alkaline soil/water. I killed that own-root when I put too much acidic alfalfa pellets in the planting hole.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 8 JUN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Thank you Straw, that would be most helpful. Baronne Prevost with its slightly puckered serrated leaves and prickly stems is so far the closest candidate to a foundling rose I discovered growing by an abandoned cottage. My rose has not flowered yet, it was just a bit of root with a couple of weak shoots 30cm high when I planted it, but now it is producing masses of new growths including suckers and I am hoping that if it is Baronne P. then it might flower later this year.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 8 JUN 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Andrew: My friend gave me this answer: " I'm not the one to know--mine is from Pickerings, so it's grafted. I don't see a lot of suckering even on plants notorious for it. Only one I have regular suckers from is a R. pimpinellifolia."

From Straw: Baronne Prevost's rooting was wimpy on me, in slightly acidic soil, so I don't think it sucker. Checked forum with many folks who grow that, and no suckering-reports.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 8 JUN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
That's interesting, thank you very much. Dye House was abandoned 100 years ago, the rose survived growing in dense woodland for the majority of that time it also had to cope with rising soil levels as the cottage decayed (our cottages are all made of cob) and was probably almost two metres lower when originally planted. The soil here is acidic too.
I will have to be patient and wait until it flowers.
Discussion id : 93-560
most recent 11 JAN 17 SHOW ALL
Initial post 19 JUN 16 by bumblekim
Only about 3.5 feet in height, but flowers are huge and with a huge scent to match! Very photogenic, and lots of variations in blooms, some are quartered, some have button eyes, some are like Bourbons or Damasks.
Zone 5b
Reply #1 of 4 posted 11 JAN 17 by thebig-bear
May I ask how old your Baronne Prevost is?
Reply #2 of 4 posted 11 JAN 17 by bumblekim
He has been growing at the E.M. Mills garden in Syracuse, NY for many many years, I will inquire at the meeting tomorrow to see if the info is available about when it was planted. I am guessing 10 to 20 years?
Reply #3 of 4 posted 11 JAN 17 by thebig-bear
Thanks, I was intrigued because of the size of 3.5 feet - I have always heard that this rose gets quite big - is it pruned hard back or something? I know it is very forgiving.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 11 JAN 17 by bumblekim
It may well have been larger in the past, I know we experienced horrible windy freezing winters, including those "polar vortex" types, recently, even the Veilchenblau that had taken over trellises had tremendous die-off. I am always happy when anything survived the winter even if it is only 3 feet of the plant :(
Discussion id : 44-497
most recent 18 OCT 14 SHOW ALL
Initial post 8 MAY 10 by kev
i firmly believe unless we know parentage of old roses,even then with great caution,we should not be changeing families to which a particular variety was originally placed by the rosiers of the day who bred them.1) because many are natures own crosses and the actual crosses are not known.
2)The breeders themslves didnt keep a complete listing of their work.
3)the listings of the crosses were lost.
For these reasons it is best to go with where the old men who knew those plants as new children of the rose family,and leave their oppions intact.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 9 MAY 10 by Cass
I, on the other hand, believe that breeders often classify and name their roses on the basis of commercial realities that are not always aligned with genetic realities.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 18 OCT 14 by CybeRose
I agree ... and so did E. G. Hill:

The Gardener's Monthly 17: 194 (July 1875)
La France Rose
E. G. Hill, Richmond, Ind.

Your correspondent S. S. P., is at a loss to know why American florists persist in classing this rose among the H.P.'s, and affirms that Van Houtte has it in its proper place. I can see no valid reason for classing it as an H. Noisette, for it certainly shows no characteristic of the Noisette class, that I can discern. No one can doubt, on comparison, that Boule de Neige, Coquette des Alpes, Perle des Blanches, are very near relations of Aimie Vibert, and Caroline Marniesse, and others of the Noisette class, and so we find them properly classed as Hybrid Noisette in many of the catalogues. But La France is either a cross between the Tea and H.P., or between the China and H.P. One might fancy there was considerable of Clara Sylvain (china) in the form of the flower; but undoubtedly it is a cross between the two classes mentioned.

There is as much propriety in placing it among the H. Bourbon as among the H. Noisette, or H. Perpetual, for in appearance it is not very unlike S. Malmaison.

But if we must have separate classes for the varieties that are so fortunate as to get Tea, Bourbon, and Noisette blood in their veins, let them be placed in classes where their character and parentage may be readily understood by the name designating the class, or else throw them all into one class to be known as Hybrids of Noisette, Bourbon, China, or Tea. The firm by which I am employed, and many others, give as their reason for not doing so, the fear of multiplying the number of classes, thereby tending to confusion, for the complaint is of too many classes already. My observation fails to discover any very prominent "types" as suggested by your correspondent. Cheshunt Hybrid is no doubt a cross from the Tea section, but it is very unlike La France, being of climbing habit.

Notice Triumph d'Anjers and Mlle. Descamps, the last named having apparently as much of the Hermosa about it, as it would dare take and still retain its identity as cross between the H.P. and Bourbon classes; the first named is undoubtedly a Bourbon as far as habit and freedom of bloom are concerned, and yet it retains much of the H.P. character in the leaf and form of flower; but I can not recall any others that might be called types of La France.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 10 OCT 12 by mtspace
Sounds like we are all three on the same sheet of music here.

To clarify: I've read that the practice at one of the larger nineteenth century French rose breeders was to start 250,000 rose plants from seed per year. So a breeder would know a rose cultivar "like a child" in about the sense that any parent who raised 250,000 children per year could know a given child well. Even accounting for how one might treat favorites and for the availability of help, the pressures of culling, tending the roses, tending the business, and bringing new roses into a competitive market would severely limit how much time a breeder could spend with a rose and how well a rose could be known by the breeder at its introduction. Thousands of person-years' experience among dedicated rose gardeners who have no commercial interest in the classification might count for at least as much.
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