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'Petite Renoncule' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 85-390
most recent 21 JUN 15 SHOW ALL
Initial post 28 MAY 15 by Tearose
It looks as if all known plants of this are found roses that someone identified as Petite Renoncule. The photos look like Red Runaround, which is a Hybrid China, not a Gallica of the agatha group.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 3 JUN 15 by Patricia Routley
I really appreciate your comment Tearose. I need to get out the archives and work out why I thought mine was 'Petite Renoncule'. It will take me time.
Reply #2 of 8 posted 17 JUN 15 by Patricia Routley
At last I have been able to look closer and I am sure you are right.
I recall Gwen Fagan at the Geelong conference in 1999 seeing this plant in one of the gardens there and talking with the owner about it. I think the owner said “if she had known it would sucker, she wouldn’t have…..” or something like that. Gwen was trying to impress on the owner how old the rose was.
Then there is the comment in Jannorcal’s photo of ‘Petite Renoncule’ (Photo Id: 153034) as follows:
“Mottisfont Abbey Rose Garden June 2010. Per Jon, this rose was sent by Gwen Fagan to the UK and David Stone ID'd it as Petite Renoncule. I believe it is the same rose being grown at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden under the found name of "Waretown Mystery Rose".
So – Gwen Fagan and David Stone has both thought it was ‘Petite Renoncule’ – and so did I.
However, looking closely at Gwen Fagan’s photo , p39 of her book, I can see (I think) tints of red in the stipules – and comparing that photo with Redoute’s ‘Rosa gallica agatha parvula violacea’, there is no red.

I’ll move my photos of "Magenta Purple on drive - source lost" out of the ‘Petite Renoncule Violette’ page in the next day or so. Thank you very much Jill. I've learnt a little bit about hybrid chinas in the process.
Reply #3 of 8 posted 19 JUN 15 by Patricia Routley
If my "Magenta Purple on drive - source lost" looks like "Red Runaround", I am starting to become most interested in the first Hybrid China, Vibert, 1814: Homogeneously purple, canes erect, out-thrust and slender.
Reply #4 of 8 posted 19 JUN 15 by Cà Berta
If it may help, the description and picture of this rose in Les Roses by Redouté can be seen, at pages 35-36 and following, here . According to it this rose had single or rarely double flowers (characteristic which does not fit with some of the photos in HMF) and bears hips.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 20 JUN 15 by Patricia Routley
It certainly would help Ca Berta. But I am an idiot when it comes to getting beyond that first black page of the site. I only have the el cheapo May 1998 Wordsworth Edition of Redoute's Roses and I don't think 'Vibert' is in that. Can anyone upload that illustration?
Reply #6 of 8 posted 21 JUN 15 by Cà Berta
My comment was related to the rose of this topic (Petite Renoncule = Rosa gallica Agatha varietas parva violacea)
Reply #7 of 8 posted 21 JUN 15 by Patricia Routley
Thank you
Reply #8 of 8 posted 21 JUN 15 by Cà Berta
If you click the PDF button in the download options menu in the right side of the page you can download the whole third volume. You can download also the first and second volumes by substituting either 1817 or 1821 in the link
Facing page 40 of the third volume there is the picture of L'Enfant de France (picture already in HMF) a rose with the righ shape although with the wrong colour .. (the gallica parent of our found roses?)
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