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'Herzogin Viktoria Adelheid von Coburg-Gotha' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 90-975
most recent 18 FEB 16 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 17 FEB 16 by scvirginia
Given all early references I can locate, it seems that the correct name for this rose is 'Herzogin Viktoria Adelheid', and not 'Herzogin Viktoria Adelheid von Coburg-Gotha'.

I could find no primary sources referencing the rose using the longer name. If nobody objects, I will update the rose name.

Virginia
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Reply #1 of 3 posted 18 FEB 16 by Patricia Routley
I think the breeder wanted to honour the women Viktoria Adelheid (and Marie) by naming his roses with their full names. But nurserymen have never been great typists and perhaps just shortened the names.
I feel The Garden (1911 ref) shortened the name to fit in in the small space and just left out the Coburg-Gotha. They managed to fit it in with Herzogin Marie von Coburg-Gotha but shortened the Marie to M. The same sort of thing happened with Herzogin Marie-Antoinette von Mecklembourg which often got shortened to Herzogin Marie-Antoinette. I am inclined not to shorten the name.
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Reply #2 of 3 posted 18 FEB 16 by scvirginia
If there were any references using the longer name dating from the time it was actually in commerce, I'd be inclined to accept the possibility that some other references had been shortened. However, I can't find any evidence that the rose was ever called 'Herzogin Viktoria Adelheid von Coburg-Gotha' prior to 1999. The [von Coburg-Gotha] that the Rosenlexicon reference has does not look like it's meant to be taken as part of the rose name, but rather as a parenthetical aside to explain whom the rose was named for.

I do think HMF should respect primary sources. I'm inclined to think that if Welter had wanted to name his rose with the "von Coburg-Gotha" at the end, it would have been used at least once during his lifetime- certainly in Rosen-Zeitung, and other German-language publications. As you point out, Welter had already used the "von Coburg Gotha" in an earlier rose name, without any sources omitting it.

Even the references from the 1911 Garden series on rose parentage did not leave out parts of rose names, even if they did occasionally use abbreviations to save space (such as M. for Marie)... in this particular case they did anglicize the spelling- perhaps unintentionally- but I don't see any reason to assume they shortened the name given that none of the other early references were any longer.

I think the longer name is incorrect, and the result of a confusing entry in Rosenlexicon decades after the rose was introduced. I don't understand how nurserymen's typing skills could have obscured the 'real' name until after the rose was probably extinct.

Thanks,
Virginia
REPLY
Reply #3 of 3 posted 18 FEB 16 by Patricia Routley
Brent Dickerson used Rosenverzeichnis Rosarium Sangerhausen, 3. Edition, 1976 so the name was around a little before 1999.

I note you have already seen the references for 'Herzogin Marie von Coburg-Gotha', also by the same breeder.
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