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"Belle Amour" rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 103-816
most recent 1 AUG 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 1 AUG 17 by Sambolingo
Available from - Old Market Farm
www.oldmarketfarm.com
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Discussion id : 100-191
most recent 26 MAY 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 26 MAY 17 by Patricia Routley
This para from a letter to a friend may be pertinent to my previous comment in "Belle Amour":
....I have a rather nice new vase with some rather nice writing engraved on it. .....thanks to Susan Ronk who carried this heavy vase from Sydney and delivered it to Northcliffe today (November 18, 2016) Susan, Judy Goldfinch and I then spent a few hours among the roses in full bloom. We each took blooms of "Belle Amour" and 'Constance Spry' in each hand and started sniffing for myrrh [see Last journal, page. 58]. "Belle Amour" smelt wonderful for us all. But I couldn't get any perfume at all from 'Constance Spry'; Susan's reaction was "It is different"; and Judy's was "I really don't know what I am doing". So we just filled the vase right up with beautiful blooms and it was a very happy day.
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Discussion id : 100-190
most recent 26 MAY 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 26 MAY 17 by Patricia Routley
2016 Heritage Roses in Australia journal Vol 38, No. 3
p57. Patricia Routley. "Belle Amour". Europe’s early garden roses were the gallicas, damasks and albas. The damask and albas have gallica in their genes but as the albas did not go on to breed, I think there is not very much alba at all in the rose in question. The large and ancient Alba roses of England normally have blue-ish leaves, but "Belle Amour", said to be an Alba rose, has green foliage. Alba roses come in delicate shades of pinks and white, but this one has a salmon tint in its pink – a shade which is not usually found in old roses. "Belle Amour" is a different rose and seems to me on first sight, to be more of a modern hybrid than an ancient alba. We don’t really know where it came from, for Nancy Lindsay said she found it in 1940 at a convent in Elboeuf in Normandy in northern France. (I sometimes wonder if this could have been the Ursuline Convent there and I am quite sure it would still be growing wherever she found it). Graham Thomas also found it growing in Norfolk in 1959.
Although it is usually classed with the Alba’s it seems to have strong traits from other roses. The salmon-pink flowers occur in spring only, in clusters at the tips of canes or laterals. They open wide to show stamens and have a strong scent and I bring a bloom to my nose again and again. The pedicels are glandular. The sea-green leaves are long and oval. Under the prickly midribs are long pilose hairs. An alba leaf edge is rarely glandular, but "Belle Amour" does have glands there. Leaf edges seem to be serrate, but I don’t really know how to tell bi-serrate and serrate edges. The leaf rachis is glandular and the narrow stipule in mid winter seemed to be most similar to Krussman’s sample C (parallel, auricles facing forward). The prickly canes are long and arching, reminiscent of an alba or damask. The smooth hips are the most puzzling trait – they measure about 15mm across, are light orange and gallica-round. They are certainly not the bristly oval alba hips or the long tapering, elliptical hips of a damask.
There were only two old roses with the same salmon tint (dawn coloured someone has cleverly called it), "Belle Amour", and 'Belle Isis' c1845, a light-green leaved gallica apparently with the aniseed or myrrh scent. Nancy Steen in New Zealand saw the likeness in the colouring and planted "Belle Amour" with the low-growing ‘Belle Isis’ at its feet. ‘Belle Isis’ was said to be one of the parents of David Austin’s English roses tribe but someone has mentioned to me that the perfume of "Belle Amour" is much closer to that of David Austin’s first rose 'Constance Spry', than it is to 'Belle Isis'. Unfortunately I do not have ‘Belle Isis’ but I am left wondering if there was confusion between the two Belles right at the start of the English eruption of Austin roses.
I gathered in a cutting of "Belle Amour" from a Heritage Roses in Australia cutting day at Del Bibby’s home in 2003 and it has grown well, suckering slowly to form a reasonable clump. I’ve just taken a sucker and planted another elsewhere, this time taking a small precaution of lining the hole with plastic sheeting, but it will no doubt wriggle out of its enclosure in time. There are dim mists veiling this rose’s true identity. I can’t wait for spring to take a "Belle Amour" in my left hand’ and a ‘Constance Spry’ in my right and start sniffing.
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Discussion id : 94-311
most recent 26 MAY 17 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 8 AUG 16 by AquaEyes
I wonder if anyone has ever compared this 20th Century foundling with an older reference to a rose called 'Belle Aurore'.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=76421

:-)

~Christopher
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Reply #1 of 7 posted 24 MAY 17 by Nastarana
A comparison of the picture by Patricia Routley of the buds and blossom of 'Belle Amour' with the picture by AmiRoses of 'Belle Aurore' clearly shows that they are not the same rose.
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Reply #2 of 7 posted 25 MAY 17 by AquaEyes
I'm curious as to your choice of the word "clearly" in your comment. Please keep in mind that Patricia Routley is in Australia, where the sun is stronger and will affect color in petals and foliage. I, personally, have seen the same Alba grown both in dappled light and full-sun, and the one in full-sun would have blooms which faded faster and foliage that seemed lighter green. If you look through other pictures in the 'Belle Amour' file, I think you'll find some features in common with the Redoute portrait of 'Belle Aurore'. Also please read both references -- more similarities.They may not be the same rose, but I think saying "clearly different" is a bit of a stretch.

'Belle Aurore' was described as having "sunset colors", and the "salmon" of 'Belle Amour' is about as close to "sunset colors" that existed in roses of that type way back when. Do we know how the name 'Belle Amour' was obtained? Is it possible that it could have been a corruption of 'Belle Aurore'? It just seems -- to me -- an interesting coincidence that two roses with similar names, both being described as something between an Alba and a Damask, both having yellow-tinted pink blooms, could be out there, and that a connection was not yet made.

:-)

~Christopher
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Reply #3 of 7 posted 25 MAY 17 by Andrew from Dolton
It has very short and smooth sepals for a damask or alba rose.
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Reply #4 of 7 posted 25 MAY 17 by Patricia Routley
Christopher, do you have GST's 'Cuttings from My Garden Notebook'? Pages 143-148 has a little to say about Nancy Lindsay and her roses.
She felt at perfect liberty to name found roses which she could not identify, though all but a few were later identified by others as already known and named cultivars.

Nastarana, I feel sure, was referring to the photos of the BUDS. The photo of my 'Belle Amour' bud is almost smooth. AmiRoses photo of 'Belle Aurore' bud is very foliated and quite prickly.

No time to do more on this subject right now.
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Reply #5 of 7 posted 25 MAY 17 by Margaret Furness
Next question: does Belle Aurore have a myrrh scent?
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Reply #6 of 7 posted 26 MAY 17 by Nastarana
Thank you. It was the sepals to which I meant to draw attention.

Also, the two names may sound similar in English but I think they have quite different meanings in French. 'Belle Amour' would be something like Beautiful Love in English--rather awkward--while I think 'Belle Aurore' might become Beautiful Dawn or maybe Beautiful Morning--Aurora, Goddess of the dawn. Lots of 19thC rose names come from Greek mythology.
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Reply #7 of 7 posted 26 MAY 17 by Margaret Furness
Also there's an English poem 'Herve Riel' written by Browning in 1891, where a Breton pilot helped bring about the downfall of an invading English fleet in 1692, and was offered whatever he chose as a reward. He asked to leave the army and go back to his wife, la Belle Aurore. There's a statue to him, according to Wikipedia. Not sure why I remembered the name, since I don't rate it highly as a poem.
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