'Windlass' rose reviews and comments

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'Windlass' rose Reviews & Comments

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Discussion id : 74-985 most recent 8 NOV 13 HIDE POSTS

Initial post 7 NOV 13 by Simon Voorwinde

"Two different parentages are mentioned in the references. However, Mr. Sutherland has advised Helpmefind on Feb 16, 2010 that this rose was not a sport, but a 'Simon Robinson' seedling." Which means the classification as a hybrid China is a little unusual given 'Simon Robinson' is a hybrid wichurana.	REPLY

Reply #1 of 4 posted 7 NOV 13 by HMF supporting member

Patricia Routley

'Simon Robinson' is also listed as a hybrid wich, mini, or shrub. I guess Mr. Sutherland listed his 'Windlass' rose as a china in his catalogues because it looked mostly like a china.	REPLY

Reply #2 of 4 posted 8 NOV 13 by Simon Voorwinde

'Simon Robinson' is listed as those three things because it is all three... a hybrid wichurana because it is wichurana x 'New Penny' (which is half 0-47-19... which is half wichurana itself), a mini because 'New Penny' is a mini and mini is dominant to tall so it has inherited mini from NP, and a shrub because the mini gene has tamed it making smaller in size and more shrub-like. Having raised hundreds of hybrid wichurana seedlings myself I just find it unusual that anything crossed with SR could look anything other than hybrid wich. though I do admit that early on the seedlings can look somewhat Chinaish, however; this is feature is always outgrown as mature leaves develop that trademark thick, waxy, shiny look instead. I've even done hybrid wich x China many times and none have been China-like at all. So I would be interested to see this rose because it has behaved in a way that is different to the hundreds of similar ones I have raised myself.

Reply #3 of 4 posted 8 NOV 13 by HMF supporting member

Kim Rupert

Which points out the classification confusion. Do you classify something by ancestry or what it looks like, how it performs and appears? My preference would be, "if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck". Listing both on Help Me Find helps both preferences as it informs you what is behind it as well as what to expect from it.	REPLY

Reply #4 of 4 posted 8 NOV 13 by Simon Voorwinde

well... if you could be certain of the parentage.. by ancestry. If there was any doubt at all I would list parents as unknown and the form as a shrub, which seems to be a grab-bag of types into which many roses fall, a mini if it was a mini, or more habit describing forms that don't allude to ancestry, like China does. I'm really not a fan of the educated guess when it comes to these kinds of things.