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'Toro' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 23-844
most recent 9 MAY 09 SHOW ALL
Initial post 30 JAN 08 by Patricia Routley
Re 'Toro' and 'Uncle Joe'. Note different breeder and different parentages
HT Melvin E. Wyant, 1972
‘Karl Herbst’ x ‘Big Red’.

HT Joseph J. Kern, 1971.
[(‘Mirandy’ x ‘Charles Mallerin’) x unnamed seedling] x unknown

1973 American Rose Annual
p179 Toro. HT. (IIIA). Medium red. (Melvin E. Wyant, 1972) ‘Karl Herbst’ x ‘Big Red’. Very large, long pointed buds. Very large, high-centered, medium red, very double blooms borne singly on long stems. Very good lasting quality. Petals drop off cleanly. Strong fragrance. Normal amount of green, soft, large foliage. Disease resistant. Green and reddish-brown bark and twigs. Few thorns. Very vigorous, upright growth. Abundant, intermittent blooming. Tips freeze. Hardy.

1973 American Rose Annual
p179. Uncle Joe HT (IIIA) dark red. (Joseph J. Kern, 1971). [(‘Mirandy’ x ‘Charles Mallerin’) x unnamed seedling] x unknown. Very large, long pointed buds. Very large, high-centered, dark red, very double blooms borne singly on long stems. Good lasting quality. Petals hang on. Abundant amount of dark green, leathery, large foliage. Disease resistant. Very vigorous, upright, compact growth. Abundant, continuous blooming.

1974 American Rose Annual
p207. Toro. HT. medium red. Average national rating 7.5.
Campbell, MN, very beautiful, exhibition bloom producer, but this stingy intermittent blooming plant is a must for exhib itors;
Barnthouse, LA, very hardy, exhibition type rose, ‘Toro’ and ‘Red Lion’ are the best reds in this area, ‘Big Ben’ would be a best third;
Cabbage, 1A, a fine new rose, make room for it in your exhibition garden;
Satterlee, MO, Wow! Here is a must if you can find one, was outstanding at the Columbus National Convention;
Reardon, OR, large dark red globular blooms, will not often open in the Northwest, equal to and as bad as ‘Uncle Joe’;
Dollinger, TX, a vigorous bush whose bloom has many petals, a must rose for all exhiobitors, the blooms open slowly making it a good target for the elements and you may have to protect it, it was much better for many the second year.

1974 American Rose Annual
p208. Uncle Joe, HT. dark red. Average national rating 7.9. Lilly, WV, excellent exhibition rose, hard to open and sparse bloomer, winters well, a must for any exhibitor, ‘Toro’ looks exactly like it;
Zimmerman, OH, probably the identical twin of ‘Toro’, I fail to see any difference, Weaver agrees it is an excellent exhibition rose, if you can’t get one order the other;
Stetar, NC, best dark red on the market today;
Jeremias, SC, one of the few roses that need to open faster, a long lasting bloom but by the time it opens the outer petals have lost too much substance, exhibition rose with a goodly number of blooms on the plant, the foliage is poorly spaced on the canes;
Cleveland, WI, You’ll never tell this from ‘Toro’.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 9 MAY 09 by Solicitr
It's generally accepted that Wyant's "El Toro" was a fraud, Uncle Joe falsely re-registered anew with a bogus parentage. Wyant had done this before, with his spurious "Colonial White"
Reply #2 of 3 posted 9 MAY 09 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I heard this too, from a former ARS President. The two roses are reported identical.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 9 MAY 09 by Patricia Routley
Thank you for that. This rose came to me in Western Australia named "Gosnells Hospital Red" with a romantic story attached how an old lady from a European country had given the rose to the hospital where she lay dying. A few years later a knowledgeable nursery lady told me it was 'Toro'. "Unmistakeable", she said, which it is. But there was always that conflict between 'El Toro' and 'Uncle Joe'. At last I can put the correct name on my rose.
Discussion id : 30-116
most recent 1 SEP 08 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 1 SEP 08 by Carlene
Does anyone know how this rose performs in the hot and humid climates of the gulf coast regions including southern Texas and Florida? I have heard this rose does well in these areas. Thank-you.
Discussion id : 28-899
most recent 13 JUL 08 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 13 JUL 08 by Frhoden
I am in Oklahoma City and just love the huge size of the buds on this rose and the nice red color but it does not like to let it's petals open into a full open rose. Someone commented that because of the length of time it does take to open the petals start dying which is exactly what my blooms do. I did have some success on two buds when we were expecting heavy rain, I covered them with foil (yes kitchen aluminum foil). When the sun came out in 24 hrs, I uncovered them and they did start to open but took too long and the petals started to turn brown. The foliage is also scant. I keep waiting for this rose to WOW me as it has been so close to doing at times but I am still waiting. I have had only 4 blooms in two and a half months of growing season.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 13 JUL 08 by HMF Admin
Thanks for sharing your experience !
Discussion id : 15-385
most recent 7 DEC 06 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 7 DEC 06 by Dave and Deb Boyd

We planted Uncle Joe in 2000. We had been told he was a hot weather rose and blooms would not open without a lot of heat. Sure enough, even during the hottest weather (Montana) 90 percent of the blooms would never open. I pulled out an 8 ft tall arbor vitae hedge just to the west of Uncle Joe in early 2005. This gave him 4 to 5 more hours of sun each day. (10 to 11 hours per day) Lo and behold, most of the buds began to open. Montana is still too cool for Uncle Joe to be completely happy. About a quarter of the buds refuse to open. We have not had warmer summers in 2005 and 2006 so I am sure the added sun exposure helped. Wanted to post this for the folks that can't get Uncle Joe buds to open. Perhaps it will help.

Uncle Joe gets 4 ft tall and wide here. He isn't cane hardy and starts the year 6 inches tall. Spring growth is vigorous. We get 25 to 30 blooms per flush and turnaround time is average, about 6 weeks. Petal texture reminds me of paper roses and fragrance is moderate. Only protection he gets is snow shoveled off the drive. Since the blooms wouldn't open... I didn't bother protecting him. Deb said I wanted him to croak so I could replace him. Uncle Joe is a tough rascal and wouldn't cooperate.


South central Montana - zone 4/5
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