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"Hubner Plot" rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 107-469
most recent 17 JAN 18 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 17 JAN 18 by Cori Ann - Norcal hot and dry 9b
After almost a year, my “Hubner Plot / Rubens” band, bought from the Sacramento Cemetery, got to be about 8 feet tall with several thick canes. Also... it has a habit like a climber. Meaning there’s obvious main canes and laterals, it drapes well, reaches for the sky, is a vigorous grower, and seems to be trainable. I have noticed how fast it’s growing compared to other new bands all year, but after really inspecting it while pruning, I decided I’m definitely going to grow it as a climber.

Curious if anyone else is trying that... and if it is a climber, does that change the ideas about ID?
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 17 JAN 18 by Patricia Routley
It may well do......

Talk to people about tracing back the PROVENANCE of the mother plant from which the Sacramento plants came from.
Jeri has said ..... "I don't honestly know what clone the Sacramento City Cemetery is selling (they had a Rubens, so I don't know if they kept Hubner). But the PLANTS they're selling are vigorous as all getout."

It seems unlikely that that the wind blew the labels out of all the pots, so it gets back to the mother plant.
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Discussion id : 107-139
most recent 28 DEC 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 26 DEC 17 by Jeri Jennings
I would not not not call this rose pale yellow.

Buff, maybe -- with hints of pink. But it is in no way yellow.
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Reply #1 of 20 posted 26 DEC 17 by Patricia Routley
Always good to have as much information as possible with the foundlings. Thanks Jeri. We've changed the colour, however I have noted yellowish centres mentioned in the early references for 'Rubens'.
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Reply #2 of 20 posted 26 DEC 17 by Jeri Jennings
It may be one of those things that changes in different environmental conditions.

I certainly didn't see yellow on the open blooms on the mother plant ... I don't know what it will do here. Teas are so danged changeable.

But though it may have some yellow inside, calling it a yellow rose just ain't accurate. I'll buy "buff" though.
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Reply #3 of 20 posted 26 DEC 17 by Jeri Jennings
Oh, and we don't know for absolute certain that Hubner is Rubens.
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Reply #4 of 20 posted 26 DEC 17 by Patricia Routley
OK. I've changed the last line in the Note too.
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Reply #5 of 20 posted 26 DEC 17 by Jeri Jennings
Thanks Darlin'.

For all I know, it may BE Rubens. But there's a fine line there and that's why we always want to retain the provenance and study name(s).

It seems "they" haven't always done that, and it leads to all sorts of confusion.
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Reply #6 of 20 posted 26 DEC 17 by Patricia Routley
Danged "they". I've just re-read Tea Roses. Old Roses For Warm Gardens pages on 'Rubens' and it seems they too are not positive that the Australian rose is 'Rubens'.
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Reply #7 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Jeri Jennings
Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle. And I suppose "they" based the identification of Hubner Plot as Rubens, based on that?

I'm not surprised. Look at "Grandmother's Hat" with all of her many names.
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Reply #8 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Patricia Routley
I don't know who did the catalog for the SHRG (Sacramento's Historic City Cemetery Historic Rose Garden) 2017 Catalog, but apparently the possible identification of 'Rubens' came from that catalog. To me it seems a good guess, but I tried to strike the small and unhealthy plant of the then-labelled 'Laurette' at the Pinjarra Heritage Rose Garden In 1999, 2000 and 2001 and after about three years I had to give up as there was very little plant left. Have you read the Tea Roses pages 176-177 chapter? It says 'Laurette' 1853 was most vigorous and the California rose seems to be a vigorous one.

The only way to be .....almost sure..... is to go to your old California nursery catalogues and just keep adding any references you find to both the HelpMeFind 'Rubens' and 'Laurette' files until things come clear.
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Reply #9 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Jeri Jennings
I'll do that.

The plant we collected in the Stockton City Cemetery was vigorous. It was one of the only two plants left in a family plot (the Hubners) had initially had many. (The other living plant is Odorata Rootstock.)

I don't honestly know what clone the Sacramento City Cemetery is selling (they had a Rubens, so I don't know if they kept Hubner). But the plants they're selling are vigorous as all getout.
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Reply #10 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Kim Rupert
My Twenty-First Century eyes agree with you, but some of the photos here are what was called "light yellow" in the Nineteenth Century, long before we had Foetida yellows.
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Reply #11 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Jeri Jennings
Yes. But none of the blooms I saw were yellow-ish.

So, what I'm saying is, the yellow may be transitory, and/or dependent upon environmental conditions. Even Cori Ann's photos were only marginally yellow. More like a pale buff. And as I said, I never saw that, in the mother plant.

You could say: "Sometimes there is a buff-yellow tone at the center of the bloom."
But I just don't think you can say: "This rose is yellow."

Take "Jesse Hildreth" . . . In some seasons and conditions, there is a marked yellow tone at the center. So much so, that both Jill Perry and I thought of the lost 'Smith's Yellow.'
But the overall picture of the rose is that it is white, occasionally washed pink on the outer petals, sometimes yellow-centered.
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Reply #12 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Kim Rupert
Oh, I fully agree with you, and having already seen many which fit well in that category and which were initially proclaimed "yellow", we can see what they grasped as "yellow" and all the proclaimed intensities of yellow. When nothing like it existed before, then suddenly appeared in something new, it was a "break". It is the same with "dazzling scarlet" and "flame". Transitory tones and tints approaching what we now have in more stable abundance.
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Reply #13 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Jeri Jennings
Well, sure. They were, after all, in the business of selling roses!

Remember -- I earned my living writing ad copy!
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Reply #14 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Margaret Furness
Three-way conversation: We want a rose for the Botanic Gardens that will attract crowds, like for the recent flowering of the Amorphophallus (corpse lily), or the Victoria amazonica in the 19th century.
-People won't queue for an hour to see a rose.
-They did in Japan, for the GM blue rose.
-Was it blue?
-No.
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Reply #15 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Kim Rupert
No, but that was also a very specific audience. The Japanese aesthetic appreciates the manipulation of Nature. Bonsai, "cubed" produce (growing Asian Pears, melons, etc. in clear Lucite boxes to create cubed pieces of fruit), etc. Plus, giving that sort of a gift, which frequently comes at higher prices (Applause, the GMO "blue rose", sold for upwards of $35 per stem) is felt to express honor and respect for the recipient. I'm not surprised the cue line for the rose introduction was long. That is why Applause was launched in Japan and not in Los Angeles.
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Reply #16 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Jeri Jennings
Precisely.

Here . . . It would have been completely ignored.

And the way things are, these days, I don't even know how I would drum up excitement. Well ... given the right audience, an exciting history might stir a bit of excitement, but . . .
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Reply #17 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Kim Rupert
"But, it isn't BLUE! What other colors does it come in?"
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Reply #18 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Jeri Jennings
"I'd love it if it came in pink."

But just in case you think WE are a small audience, try talking to people who collect/breed Brugmansias. Or Lithops.
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Reply #19 of 20 posted 27 DEC 17 by Margaret Furness
If you're interested, the rose I suggested as the best bet for a crowd-puller, was the Lijiang Rd climber. Which isn't in commerce here, flowers only in spring, gets huge, and eats gardeners on ride-on mowers.
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Reply #20 of 20 posted 28 DEC 17 by Jeri Jennings
I actually know it well.

I don't have it, but I grow the OTHER one -- which never got to England ... "Phillips & Rix China Climber." I'll have to post it.
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