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"Grandma Frederick’s Red China" rose Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
11 JAN 22 by
 Margaret Furness
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"J Datson" was pink at Rookwood, red at Renmark (alkaline sand).
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Initial post
9 APR 20 by
Patricia Routley
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I am not sure if “J. Datson” and “Frank Veal”, are the same rose as “Rookwood China”, “Rookwood’s Not Sanguinea”, referred to also as Big Single Red China at Rookwood. If they are, the files for “J. Datson” etc could possibly be merged with ‘Bengal Crimson’?
Refer ‘Bengal Crimson’ and “J. Datson” refs.
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#1 of 10 posted
9 APR 20 by
Ozoldroser
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In Barbara May's notes:
J Datson 1912 see Veal China
Veal Col. Frank H - 16/4/1924 - wife 11/12/1917 - Alice daughter 20/12/1922 - (situation omitted here)
Beautiful perf. China. is Datson
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#2 of 10 posted
9 APR 20 by
Margaret Furness
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No, "J Datson" isn't single. Nor are "Mrs Goode's red China" or "Grandma Frederick's red China".
Photo added.
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#3 of 10 posted
9 APR 20 by
Patricia Routley
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Thanks to you both. I have added “double”. OK?
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#4 of 10 posted
9 APR 20 by
Margaret Furness
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I tried to add "J. Datson" to the Ruston's plant list, but the system didn't recognise it.
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#5 of 10 posted
9 APR 20 by
Patricia Routley
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I presume that is an OK.
I have added “J. Datson” - from the rose’s page, eg added the garden to the rose’s growers.
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#6 of 10 posted
9 APR 20 by
Ozoldroser
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There are quite a few red chinas at Rookwood. James Turnball was called C. L. Brisbane and there was Datson and the Veale rose which were the same but different to the Turnball rose. Yes there were singles but to just call it "Rookwood China" doesn't tell you which it is at all - single, double, red, white????
Then there is "Steffies Red" which I think is different again, and this is without searching Barbara's listing any further.
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#7 of 10 posted
9 APR 20 by
Patricia Routley
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Thanks for your input Pat. As I see them:
"Stephanie’s Red" (NSW) (syn: “Mary Ann Murray”) is the same as “Kombacy Elyena”. This seems to be a tea and I thought it may well be ‘Francis Dubreuil’.
A double red China.
“J. Datson”, (syn “Frank Veale”) seem to be very similar to “Grandma Frederick’s Red China” and “Mrs. Goode’s Red China”, according to Margaret.
A single red China - Bengal Crimson.
“Rookwood China”. I agree this study name does not describe the rose. However there have been photos published of the rose which shows a single red. A look at the references for “Rookwood China” might help here.
Cramoisi Supérieur (syn Lady Brisbane)
The foundling name “James Turnball” is not familiar to me.
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#8 of 10 posted
9 APR 20 by
Margaret Furness
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There was also ":Jane Vaughan", which is a semi-single with a white eye. Jane Z thought it might be a seedling, and not worth growing.
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#9 of 10 posted
11 APR 20 by
Ozoldroser
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From Barbara May notes:
Vaughen Jane see Catherine Haswell single red is 'Papa Hemeray'
PT note spelling Vaughen.
There is also Vaughan Henry, Vaughen Sarah (gone)
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#10 of 10 posted
11 APR 20 by
Patricia Routley
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I remember seeing that rose on Oct 28, 2003 when Barbara took us to Rookwood. My notes of that day say:
"Papa Hemeray does not seem like my, and other, Papa Hemerays. This rose flower is stunted and contorted."
Later at home I thought it might have been 'Mlle. Francisque Favre'.
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Initial post
23 JAN 19 by
Patricia Routley
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Margaret Furness Dec 11, 2018 in “What is This?”
"J Datson" at Renmark is low-growing, pretty much "just another China". I think the flowers are smaller than in your photos.
HubertG Dec 11, 2018 in “What is This?”
I had a quick look at "J. Datson" which seems to be very similar to 'Cramoisi Superieur'.
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