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Initial post 2 days ago by JasonSims1984
Does anyone have any experiemce growing this one? Is it hardy? This could be very useful for hybridizing.
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Reply #1 of 10 posted yesterday by Plazbo
I don't but agree it likely would. If i had access id be using it or its cousins.
What i find interesting is how various rose species in commerce are distributed though. Some of the most semi-tropical species not being available in Australia but are in places like Denmark, its a little humorous
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Reply #2 of 10 posted yesterday by JasonSims1984
Considering the fact that it has cold hardy species used several places in its lineage, and then BAM clinophylla, it's kind of an exciting marriage of genetics.

I just got a Pink Surprise, which is rugosa x bracteata, which is the same idea of North meets South. I just really like the idea of that. It means that factors that weren't possible to combine before are now accessible.

Imagine a Mermaid type climbing monster rose that will survive a zone 4 winter. Or breeding a rose that will grow right up to the waterline on the beach in the deep South.

Having access to the untapped rebloom genetics and heat tolerance of a sun loving tropical species is a big deal. Plus, doesn't clinophylla survive root drown from being submerged in water for extended periods? That's a big deal, too.

Also, I definitely agree on rose availability. It's impossible to find Blue Bayou in the States, but it's common as hell in Australia apparently. It's such a good color.

Then there's the fact that a major breakthrough rose like Blue For You or Rhapsody in Blue (just staying with a theme here) are available abundantly for a year or two and then drop off the market completely exactly when you've just found a place to plant another rose.

And then there's the fact that they're named 50 different names. How hard is it to just translate a rose name to another language? If it's named after a famous person who isn't well known elsewhere, it should just inspire people to google that person. LOL. People shouldn't make their decision on a plant because it's named after some stupid celebrity like the Kardashian skanks. hehe.
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Reply #3 of 10 posted yesterday by Plazbo
I believe so. I imagine it would be a good rose to work with for more northern states here given heat and tendency to flood every other year. I just think it's funny that to get seed with clinophylla genes I'd likely have to rely on someone from a far colder climate which seems humorous to me. Technically may be able to get something from Simon Voorwinde since he at least had seedlings of the species back in 2010 (based on the gallery) ... he seems a bit MIA lately though, will see

I wouldn't say Blue Bayou is common as hell here but it is fairly easily accessible if you actively look for it though. Blue Moon, Angel Face and Man of Steel are the "standard" roses in that lavender colour that you'll see being sold everywhere (body bag style).

We don't really have the breakout rose disappearing issue in Australia, if it's a break out rose the market will get saturated with it....but everything is grafted here so propagation is a bit more forgiving and faster than having to root cuttings like seems to be common over there. We more have the issue of the second tier roses never being released here, like we get the Knock Out roses (some only being released this year...) but not the rest of Raddlers work (I really want RADsweet....or Apple Jack but I doubt either will ever be released here...so have a bunch of Lord Penzance seedlings at the moment canina meiosis though :/ )
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Reply #4 of 10 posted yesterday by JasonSims1984
Interesting. So it's not quite as different as I thought. I'm not sure what the process of international plant shipping is like. I am probably going to get applejack at my new house. I'd be happy to send you cuttings of it clandestine style when it gets big enough by next year. You'd have to track me down, but I don't see why not. :)
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Reply #5 of 10 posted yesterday by Plazbo
It wouldn't get through customs, seeds can come through legally and easily, but other plant material is difficult and expensive and has to go through quarantine and a lot of paperwork. But I will follow up with you about any AppleJack (OP) seed in the future if my Lord and Lady Penzance crosses don't work as planned (surprisingly Lord Penzance seed have had a reasonable germination rate within 2 months of being sown straight from hips, hopefully the canina meiosis breaks)
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Reply #6 of 10 posted yesterday by JasonSims1984
I have actually had a lot of thoughts about creating scented foliage roses. It would be really exciting to cross the pine, pepper, and incense scents of fedtschenkoana, foetida, and primula, with the apple foliage of rubiginosa and beggeriana. When combined in the right ratios, there are enough rebloom genes for it to be modern and interesting.
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Reply #7 of 10 posted yesterday by Plazbo
Its essentially what I'm doing. Do have Foetida proper coming in the next month. Add in Du Japon (extreme moss with mossing in its leaves) and lemon delight (lemon scented moss) and i have the building blocks....leaning more towards a fruity scent than peppery/woody/incense but will be using Helga Brauer (first gen crest, peppery) and some glandular multiflora (pine/woody) because they are glandular and half the battle ia likely maintaining glands while adding in a bit of moderns (i suspect some of raddlers plants may be useful there, they have a lot of Applejack and he's already had one foilage fragrant plant that he released so the genes are probably in there just blockd due to the lack of glandular foliage)
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Reply #8 of 10 posted yesterday by Margaret Furness
The fines for illegal postage of plant material to / from overseas are massive for both sender and recipient, even if the recipient didn't ask for it and didn't know it was coming. No rose is worth the risk of transmitting disease or pests.
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Reply #9 of 10 posted yesterday by JasonSims1984
I didn't know Will Raddler was doing Applejack crosses and foliage fragrance. I know that Carefree Beauty is a second generation from AJ.

Carefree Beauty was a parent of Knockout. So all of that lines up nicely. I like your idea of crosses of mosses. Lol. Crosses of mosses. I'm somehow extremely entertained by that.

I think Lord and Lady Penzance are pretty much just dyyyyying to get down. It's been a couple centuries and no one has hooked Mr. and Mrs. up together yet. lol. I think that would be a ticket to having a healthy foetida bicolor that's fertile. It's supposedly not easy to work with the species directly.

Foetida is a tet, and it's in the spinossissima group, and it seems to cross with spinossissima as in x Harisonii. So bicolor to x Harisonii is a logical cross to get a healthy version of it. Or to spin.

Fedtschenkoana is in that same group I believe, and it's a tetraploid too. That's why it has a linseed oil smell and fragrant foliage, so foetida bicolor x fedt is probably a winner. Fedt has a white flower, so it may just accept the yellow and red color directly. Or use Autumn Damask or x Portlandica. Maybe you can get a reblooming single or semidouble bicolor. That sounds like a good match. It's something I want to do too actually.

It sounds like you have a great plan for this scented foliage stuff.

We could trade seeds at some point if you like.
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Reply #10 of 10 posted today by Plazbo
I'm not sure if he intentionally went for fragrant foliage but if you look at the first gen offspring of Applejack you'll see 5 of his roses
RAD76-19.2
RAD76-44.1
RAD76-45.1
RAD76-4a
RAD76-4c
If you look at his lines they often cross with each other, so many of the roses he has bred have Applejack multiple times in their lineage especially when you add Carefree Beauty.
Then you have his Alaska with the briar scented foliage
https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.44285.1
which is descended on both sides by his lines and while only 1 side of the tree is there in any detail if you look at those lines and follow them back Applejack is in most of them and wouldn't be surprising if the same holds true with RADlots. So while Alaska may be a fluke, it seems more likely that at least some of the genes involved are in many of his roses, they are possibly recessive or there's a dominant gene that prevents the leaves being glandular or something.

Already thought of that too, will be using Golden Wings, Stanwell Perpetual and probably Lord Penzance (and other things) with Foetida....possibly not the easiest plants to work with but not impossible or super difficult either.

Fedtschenkoana is a plant I'm indecisive about, I'm not sure it particularly adds to what I'm trying to achieve scent wise, it's a woodsy smell rather than a sweet fruity smell. It's probably more something I'll visit down the line rather than adding to the initial mix and complicating things or ending up with so many seedlings that produce foliage scents that aren't my main goal. Would add R. micrantha if it were available though.

I have plans, it's just a matter if they work or not. Will be interesting to see what comes out of the Lord Penzance seedlings that have been germinating this last couple of weeks and what will come out of crossing them with each other :D
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Initial post today by Deb8962
Beautiful rose found when looking for a rememberance plant for my garden after I lost my mum. Couldnt be more perfect Mums name was Maureen Elizabeth Smith nee Friend she loved the garden and fragrant roses and this rose embodies her. Beautiful, strong and outstanding. Available from Handley Rose Nurseries.
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Initial post today by carmenbcdc
He cometido un error, esta preciosa rosa es trepadora y puse la foto como HT, ya está solucionado. Agradecería me avisaran cuando me equivoque, gracias.
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Initial post 28 AUG by Andrew from Dolton
'Souvenir de Philémon Cochet' or 'Blanc Double de Coubert'?
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Reply #1 of 13 posted 28 AUG by Patricia Routley
If it is highly fragrant, then 'Blanc Double de Coubert'. If not then it is more likely to be 'Souvenir de Philémon Cochet' (from which I can get no perfume).

I suspect there is world-wide confusion on 'Blanc Double de Coubert'. Because of its reputation for fragrance, we would all like to have it and nurseries may have sold another rose in its place. The references lurch from large hips, small hips, to no hips. The height varies as well, not to mention the parentage. (I note that Kamchatika is said to set a lot of hips.)

I am guessing, repeat guessing, that the parentage may have involved kamchatika; it sets no hips; is low; and has a perfume to knock your socks off. (It will be too low for your nose!)
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Reply #2 of 13 posted 28 FEB by Andrew from Dolton
Thank you Patricia,
I have been pondering a reply. My plant is highly scented and constantly repeats like 'B D de C' it and has hips which according to Suzanne Verrier 'S de P C' does not produce. However, my plant is 11 years old and has made a spectacular rounded bush 2m X 3m but has not produced a single sucker although being on its own roots. There is almost no deadwood on it despite never being pruned.
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Reply #3 of 13 posted 28 FEB by Jay-Jay
Blanc Double de Coubert suckered like mad in the past for me, but that was on a peaty/sandy soil.
Fragrance is "umwerfend" like the Germans would say. (knocks You over)
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Reply #4 of 13 posted 28 FEB by Andrew from Dolton
That is interesting Jay-Jay because I'm still not convinced that it is 100% 'B D de C', but the fragrance certainly is "verbluffend". Its one fault is that there is seldom a flower that does not have some brown petal or part of a petal otherwise from a distance it is beautiful.
It was -10 last night and snow is predicted for today and tomorrow.
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Reply #5 of 13 posted 28 FEB by Jay-Jay
In our and a friends' garden the flowers were of the purest white... no brown petals.
In fact I got that rose from those friends as suckers. They boasted about the astonishing fragrance. The rose surrounded their house and driveway and in the summer whilst sitting outside and enjoying a self-cooked Indonesian meal, we were surrounded by that BDdC scent and the sound of clocking and picking Brahma-chickens accompanied by their impressive rooster.
Over here right now, it's snow-white with a blazing wind (it was sunny this morning, but now cloudy) and a temp below -7°C. Tonight we'll get -10 too.
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Reply #6 of 13 posted 28 FEB by Andrew from Dolton
It's very pale pink in bud then pure white and like your friends' very scented pure white but with some brown bits when the flowers are fully open. By-the-way I am rather envious of your Indonesian meal. My father worked for a Dutch based company and my parents' best friends were a Dutch/Indonesian couple who used to cook really delicious food. Many of their friends were Dutch, I grew-up on drop and hagel slag!
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Reply #7 of 13 posted 2 MAY by HubertG
I don't grow it now, but I remember my BDdC (which didn't set hips) had rather bright almost light green foliage that complimented the flowers beautifully. Beautiful scent too.
Your photo shows rather darker foliage - maybe the difference is cultural, or even photographic - but I don't remember mine being quite that dark green. I don't remember mine having regular brown marks on the petals either.
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Reply #8 of 13 posted 2 MAY by Andrew from Dolton
The picture was taken in the evening but the colours are a fairly true representation.
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Reply #9 of 13 posted 2 MAY by HubertG
Do you think it could be R. rugosa alba plena?
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Reply #10 of 13 posted 3 MAY by Andrew from Dolton
I've never heard of that rose before and yes I think you're right that is my rose.
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Reply #11 of 13 posted 3 MAY by HubertG
It could explain why it sets lots of hips.
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Reply #12 of 13 posted 3 MAY by Margaret Furness
Early on in my time with heritage roses, I learnt the abbreviation WIHHA - what I have here as.
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Reply #13 of 13 posted today by Andrew from Dolton
Even when the weather has been perfect it is difficult to find a flower without brown bits on it somewhere.
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