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Initial post today by Jay-Jay
You might try and or contact Roseraie du Désert.
Reply #1 of 12 posted today by perpetua
Thank you!I take it they sell the real Lavallee?I'll keep that in mind next autumn.
Reply #2 of 12 posted today by Jay-Jay
Their rose looks nothing like Souvenir du Dr. Jamain, or Erinnerung an Brod.
Reply #3 of 12 posted today by perpetua
Great!I got my fake Lavallee from Guillot and I've just planted Brod from Loubert.I'm very excited about Brod,I planted it next to Thor,as I think their purples would look good together.Can't wait to see if I'm right.This is terribly off topic,but I miss my roses!Still haven't spring pruned anything,as it snowed only a few days ago and temperatures are still negative during the night.Flowering will be awfully late for me this year and potentially compromised in quality too,as we had some terrible frosts in February,after a very warm winter:most roses were already sporting chunky buds and the frost got to the roses through the buds.I'm afraid I'll have to prune them nearly to the ground.Sombreuil looks very brown,I hate to think it froze,but it looks quite bad to my untrained eyes,it will take me another 4 yrs at least to grow another one!On the plus side,a lot of ancient roses have miraculously made it without freezing:Madame Joseph Bonnaire(HP)is looking so green I can't believe it,the portlands are intact,Louise Odier is also undamaged.However,a lot of my modern roses look frozen to the ground.Oh,well,this just strengthened my resolve to grow mostly ancient roses.Sorry for the long boring lament.I mean post...
Reply #4 of 12 posted today by Jay-Jay
Hint: You could have posted this as Your journal.
A lot of HMF visitors love to read member journals.

Your "lament isn't that far away from the topic, for Souvenir an Brod (one of my all times favorites) is sold as the rose You want.
Some of the photos for Lavallee seem to be that rose.
Reply #5 of 12 posted today by perpetua
Thanks for suggesting a journal!I am a bit hesitant to post journals,as I'm only a beginner and I might be making a lot of mistakes that I don't see yet as mistakes.For instance,I used to feed my roses quite heavily in summer,with temperatures up to 40 degrees celsius.I have since learned that is a huge mistake,as roses go dormant at extreme temperatures(both hot and cold)and feeding them in such heat is only adding to the stress they're already suffering from;it makes them try to grow and flower at a time when they would rather not.I also killed half of my Mme Isaac by pruning it in late autumn.The laterals,being short thanks to me,froze and principals froze through the laterals.I will now replace my Isaac,as it looks painfully maimed.One of my most beautiful roses,if I say so myself.Took me two yrs to realize I should really replace it and stop being sad about it.
Reply #6 of 12 posted today by Jay-Jay
Why replace? After the frosts are over, You can shape it as You like and get rid of the frozen parts. Than it will grow again with vigor and will look beautiful next year... Or is it beyond "repair"?
Reply #8 of 12 posted today by perpetua
It looks butchered.A lot of principals have frozen last year and this winter,by what I've seen so far,has also done a bit of damage.It's also quite old,about 8yrs,and I find that older roses have limited regeneration power.If you want to,you can see pictures of the bush in all its former glory,I posted plenty of them this February in a fit of nostalgia.All is left of it are a few scrawny canes...I'll try to post an update-picture when it finally blooms this year.Thanks to you,I posted my first journal entry.
Reply #7 of 12 posted today by Jay-Jay
PS: Despite what You wrote, Your garden and Your roses don't look as if You're a beginner!!!
Reply #9 of 12 posted today by perpetua
You're too kind!But I am definitely a beginner with only 5yrs hands-on experience.I also make so many mistakes that I can't even begin to explain.I'm also very lucky in that my soil is very good and most of my roses get enough sun.This spring I've planted my very first albas and gallicas,roses that I've avoided till now because they only bloom once!Now I know better and I'm actually quite in love with them.Even though they haven't even bloomed yet!I have to wait till next spring as they bloom on old wood.
Reply #10 of 12 posted today by Jay-Jay
You're welcome. You deserved that compliment!
Mistakes are made and necessary, to learn from, when one doesn't have a more experienced acquaintance to learn from.
I waited too quite a few years, before I dared to plant those old roses, but they are really rewarding.
In fact, before I started with roses, the only experience I had with them, was from my early youth... and some wisdom gathered from books.

A large vegetable garden I've almost always had, from the age of 8... Fruit-trees followed later (in abundance)
And now spring is starting, I enjoy the multiple colors of the new leaves and fragile sprouts.
Every new season I'm anxious about which rose will be the first and when that will be.
In the mean time I enjoy the contributions of our antipodes.
Reply #11 of 12 posted today by perpetua
Wow!I have been wanting to grow fruit trees forever!But it's soooo intimidating I never start,writing it off as too complicated:spray for disease,treat for worms and other pests,pruning and shaping!!!I have a weakness for apricots,so I would naturally want to plant plenty of late apricot-trees,but I've read they read somewhat sensitive(to winds,to colds).As I have trouble finding tasty fruit in winter I would just as naturally want some winter apples and pears to last till spring.Ok my mouth is watering right now,I need to get off this topic...Anyway,good for you that you know how to grow so many things(I also love tomatoes but my attempts to grow them haven't been very successful...not to mention courgettes,sweet peas and yellow beans...snails kept eating my courgette plants and it took some time before I realizes what was happening)it must be an immense joy to be able to grow your food!ps-do you keep chickens?I don't,but my grandmother used to and I have such fond memories of checking for the first hatchlings;they're so tiny!I loved feeding them hard-boiled eggs.
Reply #12 of 12 posted today by Jay-Jay
Did You read the description for my garden? I don't spray the fruittrees. I might have some spare very young grafted apple trees of one year old, that would do the trick. Maybe exchange? When interested send me a PM.
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Initial post 27 MAY 10 by Jay-Jay
It does!
Reply #1 of 8 posted 27 MAY 10 by Rupert, Kim L.
Well, at least not in the forty years I've lived here! Hi, Jay-Jay. Isn't the bronze tint to the new growth of this seedling beautiful?
Reply #2 of 8 posted 27 MAY 10 by Jay-Jay
Reply #3 of 8 posted 27 MAY 10 by Rupert, Kim L.
Thank you! I'm in love with this one. With coloring and ferny foliage like this, I would grow it if it didn't bloom.
Reply #4 of 8 posted 28 MAY 10 by Lyn G
I would too, Kim. It's beautiful.

Reply #5 of 8 posted 28 MAY 10 by Rupert, Kim L.
Thank you, Lyn!
Reply #6 of 8 posted 28 MAY 10 by Jay-Jay
As you know Kim, it was already one of my favourites because of it's Whole appearance, or habit if You like: Stems, Foliage (young, old, form and colour in the different phases), Prickles and last but not least the Flowers! It's a real wannahave!
Reply #7 of 8 posted today by Jay-Jay
Hi Kim, despite the periods of bare frost, lots of sun and winds up to 8 Beaufort, this rose is awakening and promising some laterals with flowers this season on a prickly cane. Photos will follow.
Reply #8 of 8 posted today by Rupert, Kim L.
Hi Jay Jay! Lovely! Congratulations! I'm delighted it is behaving for you and look forward to the photos. It's just setting buds here in between the rains.
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Initial post 16 JUN 07 by Niels Plougmann
So rare and nice to see the real SDAL!!! Almost all other roses sold as SDAL are Erinnerung an Brod. It took me years to find the real rose. Where did you get yours from?
Reply #1 of 7 posted 16 JUN 07 by Margaret Furness
It's in the biggest rose collection in Australia, Ruston's nursery at Renmark. I don't know where it came from, but will ask David when I go to the nursery for a working bee in July.
Ennering an Brod isn't available in Australia as far as I know, but I've seen it in New Zealand.
Reply #2 of 7 posted 17 JUN 07 by Margaret Furness
Sorry about the spelling error.
Reply #3 of 7 posted 17 JUN 07 by Niels Plougmann
I look forward hearing about where this nursery got their budwood from. I am trying to track down the origin of the original SDAL, which you obviously also are the ovner of. Your rose is the same as the one pictured in Botanicas roses. Which is the real SDAL. I got 3 Erinnerung an Brods before I found the real thing. Did you also Notice among the other pictures here on HMF that some are Erinnerung an Brod? It really confuses other users to be shown the wrong rose, by those who bought Erinnerung an Brod. But of course they think they got the right rose, since it was labeled SDAL.
Reply #4 of 7 posted 25 JUN 07 by Margaret Furness
I wouldn't be surprised if the SDAL in Botanica was the same plant as I photographed - I know that James Young contributed photos to Botanica's Roses, and he has done a lot of photography at Ruston's.
If you want to be confused by wrong identifications, have a look at Tea roses! Mme Lambard, for example, is sold under at least 5 different names in Australia.
Reply #5 of 7 posted 29 JUN 07 by Niels Plougmann
Really interesting information! I hope David will be able to tell where they got the plant from!
And yes I have seen rosariums like Sangerhausen growing the same rose under 4 different names!!! This of course makes it easy to claim you have more than 12000 different roses in the collection.
Reply #6 of 7 posted 9 JUL 07 by Margaret Furness
Unfortunately David doesn't have a record of where his plant came from.
Reply #7 of 7 posted today by Margaret Furness
This plant was in the block of roses recently demolished in favour of a commercial planting.
PhotoDiscussion id : 109-356
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Initial post 5 days ago by Patricia Routley
An interesting photo. I don't think we are seeing such creamy yellow tones in Australia.
Reply #1 of 9 posted 5 days ago by Vesfl
This photo was taken last fall and there was some discussion on Gardenweb about its identity. I didn't want to post it until the curator confirmed that it's "Mme de Watteville". When I was there again this March, some blooms had pinkish undertones and a few buds were also slightly pink, but unfortunately it was about to rain and I didn't take a photo. Last fall, however, all blooms were solid creamy yellow and we were told that this is one of the teas that slightly changes colors seasonally, at least on some blooms. Quite a beautiful rose.
Reply #2 of 9 posted yesterday by billy teabag
This is 'Etoile de Lyon' which has been sold under the name 'Mme de Watteville'
Reply #3 of 9 posted yesterday by Vesfl
There is one other person on gardenweb who also suggested that it could be 'Etoile de Lyon' (though another GW member was of a different opinion) but these are not my roses and this rose was marked as 'Mme de Wateville' in this beautiful public rose garden in New Orleans and also confirmed to us by the curator. There are about 100 antique roses planted there, if not even more, and I posted the photos of about 35 of them from a couple of my visits to New Orleans. My intent was to share my love of roses with those who enjoy visiting distant rose gardens, even if only virtually. Thank you for your input, though.
Reply #4 of 9 posted yesterday by billy teabag
You're welcome.
Reply #5 of 9 posted yesterday by Patricia Routley
I have moved the photo to 'Etoile de Lyon'.
Reply #6 of 9 posted today by billy teabag
I also had the great pleasure of being shown these roses by Leo in 2010. They were beautifully grown and had been planted with generous spaces between the roses so that they had room to achieve their potential. They clearly loved the climate in New Orleans as well as the care and must be even more magnificent eight years on.
I'll contact Leo re the labelling of that rose.
This is what 'Mme de Watteville' should look like.
Reply #7 of 9 posted today by Vesfl
Thank you very much. Before seeing your last comment, I had already removed the photo for now because I wasn't sure if it would be right to keep it since this rose's identity/labelling is questioned. It's not my rose but from this lovely public garden and if, on the second thought, Leo concurs that it's 'Etoile de Lyon' then I would ask Patricia to let me reupload it under 'Etoile de Lyon'. I'm trying to honor both your kind discussion about its identity and the hard work in this public garden to label their roses correctly. That's a beautiful picture from 'The Garden' magazine and thank you for sharing it.
Reply #8 of 9 posted today by Margaret Furness
One of the problems with public gardens is that there are visitors who think it witty and original to move labels.
Reply #9 of 9 posted today by Patricia Routley
Go for it. You don't need my permission, but check what is in the 'Etoile de Lyon' file first as I have moved some photos to there.
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