HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'Archiduc Joseph' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 112-370
most recent 23 JUL 18 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 23 JUL 18 by HubertG
From Dingee & Conard's 'New Guide to Rose Culture' 1894, page 12:

"New Roses Introduced in 1893 and 1894.

Archduc Joseph (Introduced 1894). - A very vigorous grower; flowers very large and full, cup-shaped, of perfect style; color rose, with bluish tint; centre bright copper with edges of the petals paler. 40 cts each."

["Archduc" is how they have spelt 'Archiduc' in the catalogue.]
Reply #1 of 1 posted 23 JUL 18 by Patricia Routley
Thanks. Reference added.
Discussion id : 69-793
most recent 30 JAN 13 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 29 JAN 13 by MelissaPej
'Archiduc Joseph' can grow considerably larger than the stated size; I believe it's pretty well known as one of the big Teas. My plant I estimate is currently about 9' x 6'.
Reply #1 of 2 posted 29 JAN 13 by Patricia Routley
My """Monsieur Joseph""" - only joking there - is about the same size too. You are in Italy and I am in Australia and there is a comment in 'Monsieur Tillier' from California that a rose there grows 10' x 10' .I am sure these teas would struggle along in cooler climates, but in hot climates, they grow large and so I have altered the sizes of both 'Monsieur Tiller" and 'Archduke Joseph' to accommodate both climates, we hope. Height 4 to 10 feet. Width 3 to 10 feet.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 30 JAN 13 by MelissaPej
Thanks, that sounds fair. We don't want to cause dismay in the hearts of gardeners who think they're getting a reasonably sized rose when it turns into a behemoth.

March 31, 2016
This is a postscript to this conversation. A year or two ago the increasing sizes of 'Archiduc Joseph' and the persimmon that was growing above it forced me to find a solution that would allow both to continue growing where they were. I began training 'Archiduc Joseph' into the tree, hoping it would find its way up to the crown and sunlight. So far this has worked. 'Archiduc Joseph' is now about 15' tall by 10' wide, and behaving like a perfectly reasonable climber.
Discussion id : 57-114
most recent 9 SEP 11 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 8 SEP 11
* This post deleted by user *
Reply #1 of 3 posted 8 SEP 11 by billy teabag
Any chance it is Archiduc/Archduke Charles?
Reply #2 of 3 posted 8 SEP 11 by IanM
Oops, sorry, I went back to edit one of my messages in this thread, but unfortunately I seem to have deleted my first message!

Billy, you were correct. For some unknown reason I had Archduke Joseph confused with Archduke Charles. The one in my garden (so labelled) is Archduke Charles (the China rose). I'm not sure how I managed to confuse the two. Chalk this one up to middle aged and getting older! :-) Sorry once again.

I do still wonder why so many authors think 'Mnsr Tillier' is the same rose as 'Archduke Joseph', when they were apparently bred by different people and at different times. If we look at the original illustrations, the bloom form and colours are clearly very different. I believe the original illustrations would be useful in distinguishing the two these days.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 9 SEP 11 by billy teabag
If it's in bloom at the moment, check the shape of the receptacle and whether the pedicel is smooth or if it has stalked glands.
Do you have a good sense of smell? What is the fragrance like?
Do you let your roses set hips?
How old is your plant Ian?
Reply #4 of 3 posted 9 SEP 11 by Rupert, Kim L.
There's a very simple explanation for things like this. Often, a rose becomes available from one source, all others having discontinued selling it for their own reasons. When that one source experiences a natural disaster, such as a flood or fire, which happened to Roses of Yesterday and Today, the final source here in the US of many older roses, things can easily get confused. Memories fade, situations get rushed, descriptions and illustrations are often sketchy at best, and misidentifications occur. An excellent example is what I encountered when attempting to obtain Irish Fireflame years ago. The only available illustration was a hand colored plate in an old rose book which featured several single HT flowers. One was Irish Elegance with the caption that Fireflame and Elegance were sufficiently similar for the one picture to suffice for both.

It wasn't until speaking with someone who actually had GROWN Fireflame and knew it well I discovered what the obvious difference was, hence what to look for. When the single source for Tillier here "reintroduced" the rose into commerce with that name, it became accepted with that identity. Of course, overseas it was available as something else. Without photographic evidence and/or actual first hand experience with the roses, such confusions are difficult to unravel. Unfortunately, they do occur. There is this one; Colonial White/Sombreuil; Jacques Cartier/Maquise Boccella; Irish Fireflame/Elegance; Irene Watts/Pink Gruss an Aachen; Francis Dubreuil/Barcelona and probably a host of others with which I am not familiar. Fun, huh?
Discussion id : 33-467
most recent 26 JAN 09 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 26 JAN 09 by Carlene
Here in the Houston area it has better quality blooms in the winter time than in the summer time. All winter long I have bright pink-reddish blooms to cut for bouquets. It is a bloom machine and I love the vibrant colors. Of course no disease or insect problems. It is very healthy. I need to get more of this rose. I love it!
© 2020