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'Minnehaha' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 112-122
most recent 17 JUL 18 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 12 JUL 18 by Patricia Routley
For those interested in the Ramblers, below is a quick comparison from the references of 'Minnehaha' with 'Dorothy Perkins'. Possibly more early American references (emboldened) are needed.

1902 (Mass, US) Darker than 'Dorothy Perkins'
1905 (Rozen-Zeitung) Dark pink, not fading.
1911 (The Rose Annual, UK) lighter, variable. Earlier than D.P.
1911 (Durand, ?) Paler, larger.
1913 (TRA, UK) Deeper. Smaller. A few days later.
1920 (TRA, UK) Darker. Smaller
1929 (TRA, UK) Deeper. Smaller
1931 (TRA, UK) Deeper.
1933 (Stevens, US) Lighter, larger
1936 (TRA, UK) Deeper. Smaller
1953 (Harvey, UK) Deeper. Smaller
1978 (Harkness, UK) Paler. Larger
1985 (Gault, UK) Fading
1988 (Philips & Rix, UK) Remaining deep pink. Later than D.P.
1992 (Beales, UK) Fading
1993 (MR10, US) Fading
1994 (Thomas, UK) Deep pink, non-fading. Later than D.P.
1998 (Botanica) Fading. Larger
2016 (Belovich, US) Darker. Fades. Larger
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Reply #1 of 9 posted 12 JUL 18 by Palustris
Trying to identify these roses by flower size and lighter/darker compared to DP is not going to help much (IMO).

I have a 'Minnehaha' growing in a pot that was not adequately watered. Both those conditions (pot & water) will affect the flower size and color. My DP generally starts out "bubble gum pink" and fades to white. I have a DP with deep pink flowers on one cane and almost white on another and they flowered at the same time.

My 'Minnehaha' in the pot has smaller flowers than DP, but they are a more uniform pink and it started flowering later than DP. Is that the pot/water effect or a characteristic?

I think the flower shape has more to do with identification. The 'Minnehaha' photos provided by Eugene V. (7/10/2012; Russia, Moscow region) look like the correct flower shape. Notice the perfect "dome" the flower makes when fully open; that to my eyes is a relevant characteristic of both 'Minnehaha' and 'Sweetheart'.

I have added a couple more photos of 'Minnehaha' and Walsh's description from his handbook. I would change the HMF description from "Salmon-pink" which is more like DP to "satiny pink" which is Walsh's description.
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Reply #2 of 9 posted 13 JUL 18 by Patricia Routley
.......Trying to identify these roses by flower size and lighter/darker compared to DP is not going to help much (IMO).

Just trying to find my way through the maze and wondering of the rose grown is Europe was different to that grown in America.
It seems that there are a few more "laters" than "earliers" and I have added "Later than Dorothy Perkins" as a Note.

I am afraid that HelpMeFind does not have "bubble gum pink", nor "satiny pink" as a searchable colour. But I do agree that "salmon-pink" should go. In the searchable pink colours we have: pink blend, blush, light pink, coral-pink, seashell-pink, pink, rose-pink, salmon-pink, deep-pink, and carmine-pink. I have chosen pink, fading lighter (OK?) and added Mr. Walsh's description of "satiny pink" as well.

I have typed up that reference but not yet added it. What was the year of the reference please? We have shown references from Walsh's 1903, 1905, 1907, 1911, 1913 and 1917 Handbook/catalogues.

......I think the flower shape has more to do with identification. The 'Minnehaha' photos provided by Eugene V. (7/10/2012; Russia, Moscow region) look like the correct flower shape. Notice the perfect "dome" the flower makes when fully open; that to my eyes is a relevant characteristic of both 'Minnehaha' and 'Sweetheart'.

Yes, I do see what you mean. Somehow we missed dome-shaped when adding the 37 types of blooms. But I wonder if semi-globular would do?

It is so good to get feedback on these ramblers Palustris. I have such an interest in them and one day when I can squeeze it in, I would love to look closely at another one (that is, after I search the early American Rose Annuals for more on Minnehaha).
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Reply #3 of 9 posted 14 JUL 18 by Palustris
Thanks for trying to unscramble all this, Patricia.

Just simple pink seems perfect for Minnehaha.

The Walsh Handbook quote came from page 11 of he 1913 edition.

Semi-globular would be a good description of the flower shape for 'Minnehaha' and 'Sweetheart'.

If you would like to look more closely at a couple of Walsh roses check out 'Delight' and 'Hiawatha'.

Walsh described 'Delight' as "bright carmine" and 'Hiawatha' as "deep intense crimson." Notice that the color of 'Hiawatha' From Roses 1911 by H. R. Darlington, page 16 more closely matches the rose in Serbia and the rose posted by Bierkreek than the bright red of the rose I found in Sandwich, MA that matches the rose in Elizabeth Park, CT. Unfortunately, we don't know where Bierkreek took his photos.
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Reply #4 of 9 posted 14 JUL 18 by Patricia Routley
I would love to delve deeper into these two. I have a foundling I have presumed to be 'Hiawatha', so it will be interesting for me.
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Reply #6 of 9 posted 15 JUL 18 by Andrew from Dolton
'Excelsa' has white streaks in some of the petals.
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Reply #9 of 9 posted 16 JUL 18 by Palustris
White streaks could be 'Babette'.
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Reply #7 of 9 posted 15 JUL 18 by jedmar
Domed = Expanded

I was recently comparing 'Excelsa' to 'Hiawatha' (without blooms). 'Excelsa' has elongated leaflets set at a distance to each other, while 'Hiawatha' has more rounded leaflets closer set. I believe the same is also true for 'Minnehaha' (rounded leaflets) and 'Dorothy Perkins' (elongated leaflets), if you check the old illustrations.

Another difference: 'Minnehaha' has glandular bristles on the pedicels, while 'Dorothy Perkins' is smooth.
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Reply #8 of 9 posted 16 JUL 18 by Patricia Routley
Many thanks for those observations Jedmar.
Getting on my straw broom.... I have opened a word document for myself and am gleaning members observations on these wi(t)chy ramblers. If I can see any light, I hope to share it all one day.
Patricia
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Reply #10 of 9 posted 17 JUL 18 by Patricia Routley
For Palustris - I will respond further in 'Hiawatha'.
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