HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'The New Dawn' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 112-615
most recent 26 JAN SHOW ALL
Initial post 13 AUG 18 by happymaryellen
I planted my new dawn in March 2016. It has grown like crazy! Last year in spring I got a full flush of blooms. This year I got a full flush blooms in spring. But it doesn’t seem to continue blooming. I am deadheading it, and doing so properly down to five leaves. I also have gotten a Normas amount of growth coming off of it, it’s extremely leggy. So the question I have is, is it too soon for me to expect to bloom all season long?
It is extremely healthy and happy and green, almost no disease, just a little bit of mildew lately. I live in Northern California I am in 100% full sun, and I’ve been fertilizing every three weeks with Max sea 16 1616 Any thoughts?
Reply #1 of 24 posted 14 AUG 18 by Lavenderlace
I have only been getting a big spring flush also! I've had several people tell me that they might have reverted back to Dr. W. Van Fleet. But I have a total of 16 from two vendors so that seems like a lot to all revert back. I'm very curious to see if this fall will have any blooms from the second vendor's, which are younger.
Reply #2 of 24 posted 14 AUG 18 by Andrew from Dolton
There is usually a good spring flush here then another scat of flower from August into September. This year was unusually hot and dry and so far there have been no second flush although it has put on plenty of new growth. Maybe extra watering could be the answer.
Reply #3 of 24 posted 14 AUG 18 by Marlorena
Tell me about it.... my history with this perplexing rose here in England goes back 20 years... I bought 2 in the 1990's, the first grew 20 foot with no rebloom... I then bought a 2nd rose during September one year, from a garden centre, where it was in bloom, so I knew I had the repeat type, but in the garden it once again grew 20 foot and didn't repeat... 10 years ago I bought yet another for my current garden, from Peter Beales… no rebloom... I met the late Mr Beales a year or so before he died and told him about it, that all these ND's seem to revert to Dr Van Fleet when you plant them... he couldn't understand it and offered to replace my rose, but I gave up by then, and I'm now finished with New Dawn...

I can only hope you get some rebloom at some point.. I found it too frustrating...
Reply #4 of 24 posted 14 AUG 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Isn't 'Dr. W. Van Fleet' larger flowering than 'New Dawn'? My plant is only 5 years old growing 4M up into a cut leaved elder tree. If they revert surely that would happen gradually, not the whole plant change at once?
Reply #6 of 24 posted 15 AUG 18 by Marlorena
I wouldn't know about that Andrew, as far as I know, if it's a once bloomer it's Van Fleet but if it repeats it's New Dawn... If one buys it as New Dawn, and if it's to do with time or watering, then how many years do you have to wait before it gets into a rebloom cycle? that's what I would like to know... to be honest, I probably didn't go beyond 3 seasons with any of mine... I felt that was long enough, and I only deadheaded... let's see if Lavender Lace's roses rebloom this year...
Reply #7 of 24 posted 12 SEP 18 by Lavenderlace
Everything rebloomed immediately after all the rain a month ago but not a single bud on the New Dawns. We can have blooms to early December though so will report back if anything changes.
Reply #10 of 24 posted 12 SEP 18 by Marlorena
Thanks for keeping in touch about this.... I feel I'm shouting through a loud hailer, but if there's anyone in the world out there, who has a New Dawn that repeats... please sign in and tell us about it, because I'm dying to know ….

I'm going to check out a couple I know of in my local area, and see what they're doing...
Reply #11 of 24 posted 13 SEP 18 by Margaret Furness
There are photos on the hmf file taken in September, October, November in the northern hemisphere; so their plants re-bloom. I donated mine elsewhere because it was so prickly, and I can't recall what it did. It's a survivor rose in our Mediterranean climate.
Reply #12 of 24 posted 13 SEP 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Yes Margaret it's certainly tough, I moved a fair sized plant a few years ago and never cut it back at all, planted it to grow in an elder tree, it didn't turn a hair just kept on growing. I used to get flowers in September but haven't for the last few years.
Some of the northern hemisphere pictures have been posted in the winter months, some members might not have posted them at the actual time of flowering.
Reply #13 of 24 posted 26 JAN by Hamanasu
Hi Marlorena, assuming this is still of interest to you, I got a top-grafted weeping standard plant of New Dawn from Beales in 2014. I garden in containers on a patio and quickly realised it was not suitable (in fact, it was a hazard!) in that space. So after it bloomed I planted it in the ground, on an island that belongs to the river-side building where I live. The soil is poor, hard and gravelly; I never fed it and it was really planted too close to an ash tree. The stake also did not hold, so it spent much of its life on the island leaning on one side. I hardly ever watered it, pruned it, or dead-headed it. Mostly I forgot about it, being half hidden by the ash. In those conditions it never has spectacular blooming in spring/early summer, but it's always had some flowers in the autumn. Nothing to write home about, but still. My conclusion is either that top grafted specimens of New Dawn rebloom more readily, or that poor soil restrains green, vigorous growth, and encourages rebloom. I have just potted this up again and am training it over the arbour of a bench, as the flooding this winter washed the soil away and left it with almost entirely exposed roots and lying completely flat. We'll see what rebloom I'll get in the conditions (being positioned close to a north-facing wall, probably not much).
PS: I have just checked some past HMF comments on this rose and I gather that not deadheading might have helped with the second flush; this is because in wichurana roses 'new buds grow very closely behind the spent flowers', so one should be 'Careful not to prune off the not yet fully developed buds immediately behind the just bloomed flowers' when deadheading. This was advice from the now passed away owner of Azalea House Flowering Shrub Farm (NY).
Reply #14 of 24 posted 26 JAN by Marlorena
Hamanasu…. thanks for getting back about this.. always interesting to me... at least you know your rose reblooms somewhat.. and you've confirmed something to me that I noticed in 'Alexandre Girault'... I found that when I deadheaded it immediately after flowering and pruned it back, ready for next season, I did not get any rebloom whatsoever... one year I decided not to touch it after flowering, and it continued reblooming into autumn... not huge amounts but more than just sporadic.. the downside is that the plant looks a huge untidy mess...
So it seems you have confirmed, via the late owner of Azalea House, that it's best not to prune back the laterals too hard at midsummer... something that I was all too inclined to do...

This is good to know... thanks again Hamanasu… let us hope we have a good year for our roses... whatever happened to winter?...
Reply #15 of 24 posted 26 JAN by Hamanasu
To keep the plant in check and reduce the tangle (given that trimming off the laterals is not a good idea, as it prevents rebloom), the suggestion was to remove in the winter one or some of the older canes, close to the crown of the plant. I guess correct pruning can make a huge difference to rebloom in some varieties. I noticed that when I got a rebloom on Quatre Saisons, it's because I had pruned it back quite hard after flowering, so that I forced the buds that did not break in the spring (behind the ones that did break, further down the cane) to create new, blooming laterals. The problem is that if I subjected the plant to that treatment every year, eventually there'd be no plant left (as I don't get new strong basal canes every year); so I only do it intermittently, and must resign myself to missing the rebloom at least every other year.

The winter was such a wash-out here (Berkshire), and I can count on one hand the nights when it went below 0!
Reply #16 of 24 posted 26 JAN by happymaryellen
I gave up and shovel pruned it
Reply #18 of 24 posted 26 JAN by Hamanasu
Fair enough! I'm quite merciless with varieties that don't work for me (life is too short). :)
Reply #17 of 24 posted 26 JAN by Andrew from Dolton
I don't prune my 'New Dawn' at all and just let it climb through a cut leaved elder tree and it has never re-flowered. A bush in my neighbours garden gets a rough haircut when I prune a 'Veilchenblau' for them in July and it always has flowers in September.
Reply #19 of 24 posted 26 JAN by Hamanasu
Ha! Then I give up!
Reply #20 of 24 posted 26 JAN by Marlorena
...from Andrew's experience, it sounds like it needs deadheading but without cutting too much off... this rose has vexed me too long, perhaps it's one of those that has had its day in the sun... I prefer Ghislaine de Feligonde now because I can do whatever I like with it and it still reblooms..

..interesting about Quatre Saisons… they need getting to know don't they?... I wish I could give up... it would save me a fortune...
Reply #21 of 24 posted 26 JAN by Andrew from Dolton
It is interesting what Hamanasu is saying because I think a lot of so called "'New Dawn'" it is really 'Dr W. Van Fleet'.
Reply #23 of 24 posted 26 JAN by Hamanasu
Marlorena, I sympathise about being unable to give up (in fact, only yesterday I ordered Blossomtime, one of New Dawn's children, except, to me, more beautiful)! All I'm giving up on is try to understand ND's reblooming habits, or lack thereof. Andrew, I'm sure you're right about Dr Van Fleet getting mixed up with New Dawn in nurseries.
Reply #24 of 24 posted 26 JAN by Marlorena of luck with Blossomtime... I don't know that one, but Awakening always looks nice in photos..
Reply #22 of 24 posted 26 JAN by Andrew from Dolton
You get flushes of blooms from 'Ghislaine de Feligonde' right until you get a decent frost in cool wet conditions it does very well.
Reply #5 of 24 posted 15 AUG 18 by Lavenderlace
My first ten grew to twenty feet extremely fast too, but has since slowed down. Andrew might have a good point about the extra watering as we are usually hot, humid, but quite dry. However, we just received seven inches of rain after our usual drought conditions. So hopefully that will be the push that it needs for a fall bloom!
Reply #8 of 24 posted 12 SEP 18 by Andrew from Dolton
A plant growing in the village in a very dry position has put on hardly any growth and isn't re-flowering. My own 'New Dawn' put on a lot of new growth thanks to some irrigation during the hot dry summer, it shows no sign of re-flowering either. Others have had a good second flush, 'Rose de Rescht', 'Agnes', 'Jacques Cartier' and 'Quatre Saisons Blanc Mousseux' have all done well although 'Duchess of Portland' hasn't even tried. Others, Rosa cinnamomea Plena and the Dunwich Rosa are unexpectedly having another go.
Reply #9 of 24 posted 12 SEP 18 by Lavenderlace
Sounds like you have lots of blooms today also Andrew! I should have mentioned that I do irrigate, so it wasn't like mine were totally neglected to begin with. Though I do think that New Dawn can certainly tolerate neglect! Blooming seems to be another matter.
Discussion id : 29-736
most recent 10 JAN 19 SHOW ALL
Initial post 12 AUG 08 by Unregistered Guest
'New Dawn' is a rose I have selected--due to its color, significance of name, and the fact that it probably would have been available to the lay gardener in the early 1950's--to be included in a story I am writing. For Zone 7 in Alabama, does anyone know where this rose could have been purchased? (I am guessing through a mail-order catalog.) Also, I am looking for a popular public place (i.e. famous rose garden) in the south or on the east coast where it might have been grown and available for viewing. I need to be historically accurate, and I would appreciate any information. Thank you.
Reply #1 of 5 posted 12 AUG 08 by Patricia Routley
Roy Hennessey in Scappoose, Oregon carried 'New Dawn' in his 1954-55 catalogue and he used to ship by mail order. Actually you could write a whole book about Roy and his catalogues.
Reply #3 of 5 posted 13 AUG 08 by Lyn G
Wasn't Hennessey great ? I would have loved to have known him.
Reply #2 of 5 posted 13 AUG 08 by Lyn G
There are several tabs at the top of each rose page. You might want to look at the REFERENCES tab, the COMMENTS tab, the GARDENS tab and, of course, the BUY FROM tab. There is a wealth of good information under those tabs.
Reply #4 of 5 posted 1 JUN 09 by Chris
new dawn is the first patented horticulture in the u.s. it was found as a sport of"Dr VanFleet" in a Connecticut nursery inthe earlier part of the century,i believe. I do not know where in ct. but i have planted it, calling this grandlady, the "Connecticut Rose."
Reply #5 of 5 posted 10 JAN 19 by Cissy
Biltmore House has rose gardens now. I have the impression that these always existed even if in a smaller form. You could check this.
Discussion id : 499
most recent 22 NOV 18 SHOW ALL
Initial post 25 FEB 04 by Unregistered Guest
Is this rose prone to suckering or growing out of bounds? I want a large climber for my fence to spread out, but I don't want it to get out of control. Thanks for your help!
Reply #1 of 4 posted 13 MAY 03 by Unregistered Guest
I hve New Dawn, and haven't had any problems with suckering, at all. It is probably about 6 yrs. old or so - I'm not sure. I have it growing on an arbor, and last year it was gorgeous! Paula
Reply #2 of 4 posted 25 FEB 04 by Azalea House Flowering Shrub Farm
In time your 'New Dawn' may get larger and spread out depending on local conditions, light, water and fertilizer. Wichuranna Roses are often ramblers. Dr W Van Fleet that New Dawn is a sport of has been grown to 30 feet tall and 45 feet wide. Though I think that was in South Africa. New Dawn has been seen 8 feet tall and 25 feet wide in Albany, NY zone 5.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 22 NOV 18 by MikeInBatonRouge
Growing out of bounds? Yes, though it can be pruned. As for suckering, that is about the rootstock, and New Dawn is so vigorous on its own, there is no reason to ever need to plant it grafted onto a rootstock. If yours is, try burying the bud union slightly under the soil level; in a couple years' time the plant will hopefully have sent down native New Dawn roots from those buried lower canes.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 22 NOV 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Hello Mike,

Just out of interest how well does your 'New Dawn' have a second flush?

Regards, Andrew.
Discussion id : 93-292
most recent 18 JUL 17 SHOW ALL
Initial post 9 JUN 16 by Paz
This rose is a survivor. On a family rural property, I had this rose growing on its own roots in a garden bed with plenty of other roses growing (all the other roses where grafted onto Dr. Huey) the garden bed was watered using a local dam that was being filled from time to time with bore water. The bore increased the concentration of salt (unbeknown to us at the time was the salinity of the bore water) in the dam and hence that water was used on the rose bed, which killed all the roses over the summer. Symptoms were burning of the leaves around the outside, die back and other typical symptoms of salt poisoning.... Indica Major, gigantic climber in this bed died very rapidly as well as all the HT and F.B's gone. There was some other survivors, Queen Elizabeth, 3 bushes (also grown on own roots) and some other Scarlet Carpet roses..these roses had some burning to the leaves, but continued to flower. The soil was intense heavy clay. I am going to explore using QEII, New Dawn and Scarlet Carpet rose as potential root stocks for salty/heavy clay soils... In the mean time, the bed has had all dead roses pulled out, dug up and allowed to be flushed with rain water to leach out the salts before replanting in a few years time.
Reply #1 of 2 posted 18 JUL 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Thank you for a fantastic description of salt-damage in heavy clay.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 18 JUL 17 by Lavenderlace
We give these no water and they are still incredibly vigorous. There should be a warning about the potential size in warm climates though!
© 2020