HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Murphy's Rose
most recent 16 AUG 19 SHOW ALL
Initial post 31 OCT 18 by Murphy's Garden
Visiting here to see my roses of yesterday. I do not remember most of their names now, but their beauty and fragrance is forever graven in my memory. Tempting to consider starting a rose garden, this time small and species carefully chosen for my climate.
Reply #1 of 2 posted 16 AUG 19 by raingreen

I am putting in a waterless (no water once-established) garden east of Los Angeles, which includes roses. This is the first summer to subject the plants to 'waterless' conditions. Our last rain was in May. Plants were selected for heat tolerance, desiccation tolerance, and the ability to grow in winter.

The roses selected are 'Crown Princess Margareta', 'Old Blush', 'Mrs. B. R. Cant', 'Le Vesuve', 'Graham Thomas', and 'Evelyn'. They are proving resistant to the common local problem of sunscald. 'Crown Princess Margareta' has maintained better foliage than the other roses, who developed brown leaf edges after experiencing a couple of months of drought. Also, 'Mrs. B. R. Cant' and 'Le Vesuve' defoliated in July. MBRC has an attractive branch structure, and actually looks OK IMO. However, most people would prefer roses that remained evergreen under the summer drought.

Although we are a couple of months out from the fall rains, so far CPM appears to be the best choice for a waterless garden in Los Angeles. This is due to it's healthy evergreen foliage under drought. Of course your mileage may vary. David Austin's nursery isn't disclosing the complete parentage, but it looks like the plant is a hybrid with a cluster flowered noisette.

Hoping you can have a rose garden that truly thrives,


Edit on 12/13/2019: Crown Princess Margareta developed unattractive dried leaves in late summer/fall and was removed.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 16 AUG 19 by jedmar
Very interesting! Growing plants in drought conditions will be an important theme
most recent 29 JUL 13 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 27 JUL 13 by Jay-Jay
You posted a sad journal entry today, I'm sorry for You!
The photo's in the past of Your garden were very nice and showed the joy in gardening and growing roses...
But no garden photo's since september 13-2011.
Could You bring up the effort and show by photo's what is going on in Your garden, though it must be heartbreaking to see the difference!
We are in a changing climate too, with extremes: Drought periods, some cold, some very hot, alternating to thunderstorms/periods with lots and lots of rain. The Dutch weather is variable, but it has changed to extreme variation.
Reply #1 of 15 posted 27 JUL 13 by Murphy's Rose
Hi Jay, thanks for the nice reply.

Here are vitually no roses in my garden anymore and HMF roses might think my current photos are inappropriate for a rose site.

I hope the best for your climate and your gardening. A summer like 2011 can demolish a garden for years to come.

Good luck!
Reply #2 of 15 posted 27 JUL 13 by Jay-Jay
Thank You! And I hope You can enjoy the new way of gardening.
Just today, another member posted some lists of drought resistant roses, but how resilient those might be in Your conditions???
Reply #3 of 15 posted 27 JUL 13 by Murphy's Rose
I've about decided conditions are too hostile for roses here. Even my species and spinnossissimas are on the decline.

Actually, my garden is flourishing with heat and drought tolerant perennials that give me a wealth of bloom, even in the heat of the summer. I have really gotten into butterfly gardening, offering both nectar and larval host plants. It is so much fun watching the butterflies and even raising some larvae to adults and releasing them.

Thanks for the support and good luck!!
Reply #4 of 15 posted 28 JUL 13 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Best wishes SMurphy. I've been growing Asclepias curassavica here for years. It self seeds nicely. Queen butterflies love it. I've raised several generations. Drought tolerant.
Reply #5 of 15 posted 28 JUL 13 by Kim Rupert
Murphy, I, too, am sorry for the loss of your rose growing ability. There ARE, as you've written, plants which bask in your current conditions. Leucophyllum, Caesalpinia mexicana and other species, Salvia greggii and quite a few other types which simply stretch and flower when the temps climb. Caesalpinia are very easy from seed. I find them self seeding throughout my roses! Mexicana is the easiest I've found. Until established, you hit it with the hose once weekly. Here, it flowers virtually year round. (Photo below) I will be happy to share seed with you if you would like to send me your address privately. Kim
Reply #6 of 15 posted 28 JUL 13 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Caesalpinia pulcherrima is another goodie. LOVES the heat!
Reply #7 of 15 posted 28 JUL 13 by Kim Rupert
Yes, pulcherrima is gorgeous, but not as easy from seed, nor as fast growing.
Reply #8 of 15 posted 28 JUL 13 by Murphy's Rose
Thanks for the continuing replies and support!

I am finding good with the bad with the current climate situation. The bad is that I don't really think roses were ever a good choice for my area. When I first got into gardening with roses, we must have been having some good years. The climate here is way wacky now, and roses just don't dig those off-the-chart extremes. And now this year, my chicken-wire baskets protecting the root systems have rusted through with gophers and moles having their way. I am worn out and just don't want to fight the opposition anymore. I am currently digging up unreplacables and putting them in pots, horrible to do in the heat of July, but is their only chance for survival.

The good is that there are tons of plants that like it here and are easy on the aging gardener to maintain. I have a plethora of salvias of various variety and they are my garden bones. Mixed in are coreopsis, blanket flower, goldenrod, zinnia, acanthus, lavender, mallow, milkweed, passionflower, pipevine, bluebeard, ornamental grasses, lantana, dalburg daisies, ox-eye daisies, rudbeckia, penstemon, rosemary, fennel, dill, santolina, and others. It is a wild and wooly butterfly paradise, I love it. I am heavy-duty into butterfly photography now, one always need an obsession to make getting up in the morning a priority!
Reply #10 of 15 posted 28 JUL 13 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Susan, you could also try plunging 15 gallon containers into the soil if you have the energy.

Just leave the lip above ground level to make a reservoir. I use this method a lot, especially for roses that sucker profusely.

Most critters won't attempt to chew past the planter to get at the roots.

I commiserate. I'm sure your garden will be as lovely as ever.

Best wishes, Robert
Reply #11 of 15 posted 28 JUL 13 by Murphy's Rose
Actually, I have tried sinking roses with pots into the ground. They look better than the ones with just chicken wire. I'm thinking roses really don't like their roots messed with, as what happens in sandy soils.
There is something weird going on around here with so many roses dying simultaneously. Especially with the great weather we have been having this past month, cooler and rainy spells.
Reply #12 of 15 posted 29 JUL 13 by Kim Rupert
Roses don't like their roots messed with. Most plants don't. If your soil is that sandy, it impressed me that the sunken can planting would be superior than the wire because the can holds the water longer before it can exit through the drain holes, than your sandy soil does. You probably have better moisture retention with the potting soil you use, too. Combine the two and it's likely tremendously better than sandy soil for holding water until the plant can actually absorb it, plus it probably retains more for it to absorb later. Sounds like the perfect solution for you, should your weather improve enough to enable you to try again.
Reply #13 of 15 posted 29 JUL 13 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I also garden in sand and gravel.

Kim you summed up the advantages of plunging containers in such a situation beautifully.
Reply #14 of 15 posted 29 JUL 13 by Kim Rupert
Thanks sir!
Reply #15 of 15 posted 29 JUL 13 by Tessie
Susan, I agree. It does sound as if something weird is going on with the deaths of your roses. Have you had any that have perished tested for pathogens? Or taken/discussed this with local ag extension/college agriculture folks? Even with drought conditions, the "simultaneous" part doesn't seem normal. I also grow multiple of the other plants you mention, including salvias, and many of them are no more drought tolerant than some of my roses, often less, so I would be suspecting that something else might be going on here.

Btw, I also love butterflies and have lots in my garden, particularly swallowtails, mourning cloaks, cloudless sulfurs, and cabbage whites. I went to the butterfly pavilion yesterday (Sunday) at my local botanic garden. It was the last day and when they release all the butterflies. Wonderful! It was last year's trip that got me to add and appreciate monardellas after seeing how much the butterflies enjoyed them. Also purchased eriogonums (wild buckwheat) for the same reason.

Reply #9 of 15 posted 28 JUL 13 by Murphy's Rose
Thanks for the offer, Kim. I would love to grow the Bird of Paradise, but not hardy here. I do already grow Texas sage.
most recent 16 APR 13 SHOW ALL
Initial post 1 APR 13 by Grntrz5
Murphy Rose, have you updated your rose list since the past few years' droughts? I've admired your garden, always such lovely photos. Do you have the alkaline caliche or the sandy soil down there? We have very hot weather too, and wanted to know how you prepared your soil to withstand your conditions. Where you under watering restrictions, or was it just time and energy to water everything enough?
Reply #1 of 2 posted 16 APR 13 by Murphy's Rose
Hi, no I have not updated in a while. I don't have as many as I did. I don't think I could have watered enough to make much difference. The heat of 2011 was like nothing I have ever experienced, 100+ for over 100 days, many of those 110+. To add to the problem, the air was so dry, the roses literally dehydrated. Add in mole and gopher damage to the roots... Then my well went dry and municipal watering restrictions in effect. A perfect storm. I have been looking at pictures of my garden, hard to believe it was ever that beautiful. I have very loose sand, amended with compost and manure. The constant churning of the soil by the moles and gophers probably was the worst thing---I am surrounded by open fields and they come into the garden when it is dry. Roses do not like disturbed roots. I was just talking with my husband. wondering if the drought suddenly turned around, could it ever be that beautiful again.
Good luck with your roses, Jill
Reply #2 of 2 posted 16 APR 13 by Grntrz5
Jill, you have made a beautiful garden, and with what you have learned in the drought years, you can continue to make one that is resilient, and just as beautiful in a new way.
We have that same heat and dryness most years, but this last one was very hard on our small trees, even with all the watering we did.
Where there any classes of roses that did better than others? We have sandstone held together with silt, and any rocks I remove is replaced with bagged "soil", and moles and then voles, the cats make a slight dent in their population so I need to make some gopher cages. Enjoy your spring, and early summer, and especially those bluebonnets, and Indian paintbrushes. Lisa
most recent 16 SEP 12 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 16 SEP 12 by Murphy's Rose
what a great desert garden! love it!
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