HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Johno 
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Initial post
2 days ago by
Johno
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Can someone please explain HMF classification for Tinkerbell as 'miniature, patio'. I thought it had been reclassified but on checking on Modern Roses it is still listed as a Floribunda.
"Tinkerbell (Suntink), Floribunda (Fl), lp (Light Pink), 1999, Schuurman, Frank B., Full (26-40) petals, flowers soft, light pink, borne Large Clusters, Regular Repeat, Moderate, Glossy Foliage Surface, Medium Green Foliage Color, Upright Growth, Medium Height, Patent# PP10940, [White Dream X Evelien], Franko Roses New Zealand, Ltd., 1993"
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Thank you Johno. Corrected the ARS classification to Floribunda, as per MR 12.
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#2 of 4 posted
yesterday by
Johno
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Thank you, Patricia. A very minor point, in the references MR11 has a later publication date to MR12.
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Corrected MR 11 to 2000. This is the only MR I don’t have, but I am sure it was 2000. Thank you again johno.
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#4 of 4 posted
yesterday by
Johno
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Mr. Google confirms the date as 19th April 2000, so the memory is still going strong Patricia.
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Rose Listing Omission
Subzero
White, strong fragrance, 1.5m
Ref: www.wagnersrosenursery.com.au/collections/2024-new-releases/products/subzero
Reply #1 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
Johno, I presume this is a Meilland Rose?
Reply #2 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberJohno
I would not make this assumption as Wagner's Roses has recently increased the number of firms it has taken on, being agents now for Delbard, Brundrett, Barni and David Austin.
Reply #3 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
I assumed, because the Victorian Racing Club website had an article on “Subbie and Graham” and have added a bit on the bottom:
“A brilliant white rose bred specifically for the Salisbury Subzero Memorial Rose Garden by Kim Syrus of Corporate Roses in South Australia.”
Reply #4 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberMargaret Furness
It would be nice to find the breeder's code for these new roses. And for Lady of the House.
Reply #5 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
Agree. The code for ‘Lady of the House’ is MASasch.
Reply #6 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberMargaret Furness
Thanks Patricia. I tried to track that down earlier, without success.
Reply #7 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
Me too. But Knight’s Roses is now listing the ‘Lady of the House’ code and we can thank Jedmar for finding that.
Reply #8 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberJohno
With that bit of information, it is a very good assumption to make.
Lady of the House was kept under the wraps for a long time and as far as I know you can still only purchase direct from the charity.
Reply #9 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
Another assumption - MEIfaissel ?
Reply #10 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberMargaret Furness
I don't think Wagner's would introduce the same rose under two names. (MEIfassel Introduced in Australia by Wagner's Rose Nursery in 2016 as 'Brilliance'.)
Reply #11 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
But Corporate Roses (agent for Meilland) could have given the white MEIfaissel to the Victorian Racing Club in memory of the snowy white horse called Subzero.
Reply #12 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberJohno
You may very well be right. I only purchased Brilliance (Meifaissel) this year and I can see the similarities. Both grow to 1.5m and have strong fragrance. It is interesting that both are charity roses. If they are the same, I do question the ethics of a grower having the variety under two different names in their catalogue.
Reply #13 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
I’ve opened a page for ‘Subzero’.
Reply #14 of 15 posted 3 days ago by HMF supporting memberMargaret Furness
No, why would it say "...bred by Kim Syrus"?
Reply #15 of 15 posted 2 days ago by HMF supporting memberjedmar
HMF Admin, can this discussion be moved to the new rose listing 91162 please?
I don’t think it can Jedmar. I’ve just copied from Website omissions and pasted to ‘Subzero’.
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#1 of 7 posted
12 DEC by
jedmar
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Thank you, Patricia!
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Pierre Arditi (MEIcalanq), renamed as 'Subzero' is a 2024 new release rose, introduced in Australia by Corporate Roses. Patricia Routley, you may have to merge these two files together. There is also a confusion about MEIcalanq and MEIdiaphaz ( Jean Moreau: National Pride). Matthias Meilland has already said in a comment in MEIcalanq that these two are two distinct varieties.
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I am sure you are right Indra Ashokkumar. Have you seen a reference which links Subzero with MEIcalanq?
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#4 of 7 posted
11 APR by
Johno
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Can confirm that Subzero is MEIcalanq and not MEIfaissel. Petal count is much higher, very double.
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Thank you both. Subzero merged with MEIcalanq. (a reference is always preferable).
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#6 of 7 posted
15 APR by
jedmar
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The Rose Society of South Australia gives today on fb the story of Subzero (Meicalanq)
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Thanks Jedmar. Reference added.
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If plant not produce stripe id-Black delight
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#1 of 4 posted
5 MAR 22 by
Johno
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I assume that as a sport of Hocus Pocus which in turn is a sport of Black Beauty (Kordes, 1999), the photo shows a reverting back to Black Beauty. Neither sport is stable, and it is interesting to note that Black Beauty is in turn a sport of Frisco (Kordes, 1986).
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You are correct. Abracadabra is very unstable and reverts back to Black Beauty frequently. My plant had one branch that reverted to Frisco.
This photo should have been posted under Black Beauty.
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#3 of 4 posted
7 APR by
Johno
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No, I think it is in the right location. If the rose was purchased as Abracadabra then the photograph simply illustrates that the sport is unstable. How do we know that this rose hasn't sported to something different again rather than exactly back to Black Beauty?
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I suppose where it should be posted is totally a matter of opinion. We do know that it reverts to Black Beauty and that's what this photo appears to be. I have extensive experience with this rose and could post photos with blooms of all types and colors. I only consider it Abracadabra when it has the characteristic appearance of Abracadabra. If you want to consider it Abracadabra when it reverts, that is up to you. A major problem with posting a reverted photo of it under the name "Abracadabra" is that it then comes up on this venue when someone wishes to see a representation of that rose. It is not.
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Initial post
2 APR by
Johno
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In the Description Page could "Bred by David Austin...." please be added as this rose is not listed on HMF in the DA Plants Bred list.
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Done. Thank you Johno.
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