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Sí, mi tierra es ácida, por eso florece completamente blanca.
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I wonder if it may be time to split the 'Bloomfield Abundance' listing into two parts, perhaps with a Wiki-type "disambiguation," in that 'Spray Cecile Brunner' is the rose traditionally called by that name, yet Fred Boutin has found apparently the "real" thing, and it's quite a different rose. I see no current way, for example, to list which one grows (we have both in the FSC gardens).
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We do have two separate files for
Bloomfield Abundance Thomas 1920 and
Spray Cecile Brunner Howard, 1941.
There are many photos of 'Spray Cecile Brunner' in the 'Bloomfield Abundance' file but I am not volunteering to move them. Hopefully, members will take up the baton and move them themselves.
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I would say that the many photos of (as you say) Spray Cecile Brunner) in the Bloomfield Abundance file are actually not Spray Cecil Brunner but the actual original Bloomfield Abundance. See some of the black and white photos in the file with the extral long sepels not existent on the Cecil Brunner. Here is my rebuttal to this misnamed rose next to my photo in the file:
Rose photo courtesy of Lance Mellon
Peter Beales and many others conclude that Cecile Brunner and Bloomfield Abuindance are NOT the same rose. We have both and my Bloomfield Abundance has been growing here for over 70 years old. Bloomfield has the long sepels. These are missing from Cecil Brunner. Bloomfield Abundance blooms about a month later than Cecil Brunner. There are many other differences and most experts agree the two roses are different AND that the large pink rose mentioned by some is not Bloomfield Abundance. We hope this will be changed in your database.
Uploaded 21 AUG
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Spray Cecile Brunner was shown by Malcolm Manners' group to be almost identical with Mlle Cecile Brunner by DNA comparison, and therefore must be a sport of it. The original Bloomfield Abundance has very different parentage (wichurana x HT), and could not possibly be very similar to Mlle Cecile Brunner on DNA comparison.
So: four roses.
Mlle Cecile Brunner
Cl Cecile Brunner
Spray Cecile Brunner (originally called a climber, which it isn't, in Australia), and sold for decades in many countries as Bloomfield Abundance (which it isn't). As someone said, it grows like a triffid (makes a huge bush), has long sepals, and starts flowering later than the above two.
The above three are very similar in DNA comparisons.
Bloomfield Abundance, HT, lost for many years, unrelated to the above three, possibly rediscovered.
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#4 of 5 posted
13 days ago by
 jedmar
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Thank you, Lance and Margaret, for your comments. We have now 4 listings:
- Bloomfield Abundance
- Cécile Brunner
- Cécile Brunner Clg by Hosp
- Spray Cécile Brunner = Cécile Brunner Clg by Ardagh
The photos on these pages are hopelessly mixed-up for an admin who doesn't have all of these varieties. Are there any (which) show the real BA? I am assuming that the bloom pictures of the next three are all identical.
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To make things a little clearer, I think we should rename ‘Bloomfield Abundance’ as ‘Bloomfield Abundance (hybrid tea, Thomas, 1920).
It is impossible to tell which Mar's photo is of. Perhaps moved to her garden file page?
The same with the photo from Rosesbyping.
I also think Lance Mellon's photo should be moved to 'Spray Cecile Brunner'.
JeanClaudeH seems to be 'Spray Cecile Brunner'
As does the photo from Oli_Nwk
and Kamila Rakowska-Szlazkiewicz Rosaplant. - two photos
That would leave all photos in this file belonging to the rediscovered ‘Bloomfield Abundance’ (hybrid tea, Thomas, 1920).
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Rose Listing Omission
Suetta Plot SE
This is a found rose that is located at the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden.
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#1 of 2 posted
6 MAY by
jedmar
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Added, thank you! Is it at the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden or at the San Jose Municipal Rose garden (as mentioned on the photos)?
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yes this rose is at the Heritage rose garden in San Jose, CA.
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I am always interested in the roses that Paul Barden bred. It is so vigorous and carefree with a flexible cane so I train it the way I want to. The petals are almost quilted because it rolled back so much. The fragrance is very tea-like and sweet and a hint of fruit as an undernote. They are born on the end of a stem and in big clusters. The color is a delicious fluffy pink that reminds me of a strawberry milkshake just a little deeper than Cecile Brunner. I will definitely rank Mels much higher than Cecile. There's no trace of mildew or disease and the plant is grounded in semi-shade most of the time of the yr and total shade in the winter. Mel's a real winner in my book.
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