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Roses, Clematis and Peonies
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Initial post today by Witchy
I have three of these. All own root. All 3 survived winter just fine here in zone 6b. (even the tiny one I rescued from my old house in SC, that had been mowed and moved in the middle of summer) With no protection. Dingo has told me Belinda's Dream survives in Chicago just fine as well. (Zone 5) This is a tough rose for me, and I'm no expert rose grower. Maybe it's a 5b iffy rose, but it definitely doesn't need zone 7 warmth. I would plant it if I lived in 5b and wanted it.
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Initial post 2 days ago by lbuzzell
We've been asked by an environmental horticulture student at a nearby college about best roses for commercial uses - making rose water, perfume, rose water, rose vinegar and other rose products. Any suggestions?
Reply #1 of 8 posted yesterday by jedmar
Traditionally it is Rosa centifolia or Rosa damascena for rose water and perfume; Rosa gallica for rose vinegar. The variety 'Kazanlik' is planted extensively in Bulgaria and Turkey for rose water and rose oil. In India they also use 'Rose Edouard'. I know someone who uses 'Graham Thomas' to prepare yellow-coloured rose water and jams.
Reply #2 of 8 posted yesterday by Andrew from Dolton
The hips from Rosa canina were used, and still are, commercially to produce rosehip syrup. As a newborn I was given this and a blackcurrant syrup called Ribena recommended then as health foods to be given in bottles at bedtime. It wrecked my milk teeth.
Reply #3 of 8 posted yesterday by Andrew from Dolton
Marguerite Patten, 500 RECIPES FOR JAMS, PICKLES, CHUTNEYS. Pub. PAUL HAMLYM LIMITED, Westbook House, Fulham Broadway, London.

p. 39
Rose Hip Jelly

Cooking time 50 minutes

You Need:
1 lb. rose hips
2 lb apples
lemon juice

1. Simmer the rose hips with 1/4 pint water and apples with 1/2 water, separately.
2. Put both lots of fruits through separate jelly bags.
3. Mix together.
4. Allow 1 lb. sugar and the juice of 1 lemon to each pint.
5. Stir over low heat until sugar has dissolved.
6. Boil rapidly until jell is set.

Rose hip syrup

cooking time 5 minutes, plus sterilizing time.
you will need:
1 lb. rosehips
8 - 12 oz. sugar
3 pints water each pint of juice

To preserve the maximum amount of vitamin C, this is the method to use:-
1. Grate or chop the hips quickly and use immediately after grating.
2. Put into the water once boiling.
3. Simmer for 5 minutes only.
4. Stand for 15 minutes.
5. Strain and measure.
6. Add the sugar and proceed from step 3 in fruit syrups (see page 81)....

[And it goes off all about boiling it up and making syrup, if anyone wishes to know then ask me in a private message. I'm sorry about the imperial measurements].
Reply #5 of 8 posted yesterday by lbuzzell
Many thanks Andrew for the ideas and recipe! I love the idea of Rose Hip Jelly or Jam. Alas, we can't grow R. canina here in our Mediterranean zone - any suggested alternative roses that have great hips and could grow here?
Reply #6 of 8 posted yesterday by Andrew from Dolton
There is also a delicious North African spice mixture, Ras el hanout, that contains tiny rose buds but I don't know what rose they are.
Reply #4 of 8 posted yesterday by lbuzzell
Thanks Jedmar. We are in a Mediterranean climate zone so need roses that can grow well here, which unfortunately excludes centifolias, gallicas etc. The Austin roses that have old rose genes (like 'Graham Thomas' and perhaps 'Gertrude Jekyll' and 'Golden Celebration'?) sound like possible alternatives - any other suggestions of Austin or other roses that might grow well here but also offer old rose taste and scent?
Reply #7 of 8 posted yesterday by Margaret Furness
I'm surprised you can't grow R canina - or is that a quarantine restriction? I'm in a mediterranean climate (cool wettish winters, hot dry summers) and both R canina and the sweetbriar are declared weeds, bird-spread, in southern Australia. Sweetbriar is feral in New Zealand too (and was an important source of vitamin C during the war years, I'm told).
I haven't tried rugosas for taste of hips.
Reply #8 of 8 posted today by Patricia Routley
'Miss Clipper', 1942 was recommended for perfumed oil. See the 1949 reference for that rose.
'Gertrude Jekyll', 1986.See the 1993-106 reference.
I have noted 'Mme. Isaac Pereire' and 'Comte de Chambord' mentioned in the articles below and these articles may provide background information.

2010 The Rose, p347. Jennifer Potter
2000. Heritage Roses in Australia journal, Vol 22, No. 3, p37. Drying petals for confetti.
2000. Heritage Roses in Australia journal, Vol 22, No. 2, p38. Recipes for Elizabethan Bath Balls, and Rose Hip Chutney.
1998. Heritage Roses in Australia journal, Vol 20, No. 3, p44. Drying Rose Petals (using the microwave)
1978 The Rose Annual, UK, p33. G. S. Thomas. The Fragrance of Roses.
1975 The Rose Annual, UK, p22. G., S. Thomas. Perfume.
1974 Roses, p214. Gerd Krussman. The Rose in the Kitchen.
1964 The Rose Annual, UK, p42. A. M. Aldous. Pot-Pourri and Other Recipes.
1928 The Rose Annual, UK, p91. Mrs. Simonds. Pot-Pourri.
1918 The Rose Annual, UK, p95. Gertrude Jekyll. The Making of Pot-Pourri.
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Initial post yesterday by Patricia Routley
What were this breeder's christian names? We have three mentioned: Walter, L. Wilhelm, and Wilhelm August.
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Initial post 9 MAY 15 by Jay-Jay
Why oh why is this Rose called Pissarti and not Pissardii after the discoverer Pissard, like I believe it should have? Like the Purple Leaf Plum Prunus cerasifera 'Pissardii'.
In some of the References on HMF it is called Rosa Pissardii!
Reply #1 of 4 posted 2 days ago by CybeRose
The first publication of the plant and its name included a note from Pissart. Even if it was a misprint, there is nothing to be done because the name of the rose was published at that time as Rosa pissarti.

Revue Horticole, pp. 314-316 (1880)

Voici ce qu’il nous écrivait sur cette plante le 15 août 1879:
Cher monsieur Carrière, 
La magnifique espèce dont je vous ai envoyé des échantillons en fleurs et en fruits est originaire du Guiland, localité voisine de la mer Caspienne, et dont elle a été importée il y a déjà longtemps, pour orner les jardins de Téhéran, ce à quoi, du reste, elle est très-propre. Elle y pousse et fleurit très-bien, quoique la chaleur soit extrême pendant six mois, et qu’elle soit plantée dans un sol sec et pierreux, pas ou peu arrosé, et que l’hiver le thermomètre s’abaisse jusqu’à 15 degrés au-dessous de zéro. La plante devient admirable par son port élevé et ses inconvenir; elle demande à être isolée et plantée au midi. Placée sur une pelouse, cette espèce produirait un effet splendide.
Quoique la plante donne facilement et même abondamment des fruits, je n’ai jamais trouvé de bonnes graines. Je suis même disposé à croire qu’il en est ainsi partout ici, car je n’ai jamais vu de sujet provenant de semis, et les indigènes la multiplient par marcottes. 
Veuillez, etc. Pissart.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 2 days ago by Jay-Jay
I found this from the University of Wageningen ( ) : Page 61-63
De Botanische Nomenclatuur behoort niet kakistocratisch, zelfs niet democratisch (dat beteekent in dit geval: gedeeltelijk kakis-tocratisch) doch aristocratisch te zijn. Verstand en goede smaak
behooren te overwegen. Scientia amabilis! Nomen est omen, De namen weerspiegelen de botanici.
Nr. 196.
Prunus Pissardii of Pissartii
Celastrus orbiculata en articulata.
Orthographische kwesties, REHDER in Amerika, VOSS in Duitschland, schrijven, tegen de
gewoonte, Prunus Pissartii.
De soort werd door CARRIÈRE in Revue Horticole van 1881 bekend gemaakt met den naam
P. Pissardi; CARRIÈRE deelt er tevens in een noot mede, dat in den vorigen jaargang een nieuwe rozensoort bij vergissing Rosa Pissarti genoemd werd, doordat hij in de meening verkeerde, dat de naam der betreffende persoon PISSART was, terwijl het PISSARD bleek te zijn; dus moest de naam Rosa Pissardi worden.
Derhalve had REHDER, die principieel en volgens art. 57 der Internationale Regels de namen zoo houdt als ze oorspronkelijk gepubliceerd zijn, Prunus Pissardi en Rosa Pissarti moeten schrijven in zijn „Manual", doch hij schrijft Prunus cerasifera var. Pissartii BAILEY 1)
en Rosa moschata (syn. R Pissardii CARR.).
Derhalve volgt hij zijn eigen principe hier niet, noch geeft hij een goede correctie.
Wanneer men daarentegen de namen schrijft zooals zij behooren geschreven te worden in overeenstemming met de namen, waarvan zij zijn afgeleid, met de regels van het latijn en het
grieksch en met de internationale Regels en Aanbevelingen der Nomenclatuur (eenigszins geëmendeerd), dan hebben we vasten bodem onder de voeten en wordt éénheid op dit gebied
Dan moeten wij schrijven (So we have to write:)
Prunus Pissardii
Rosa Pissardii.
Reply #3 of 4 posted yesterday by CybeRose
Formal nomenclature is sometimes frustrating because of the "first published" rule. However, having waded through the many arbitrary name changes before the modern rules were established, I'm willing to accept the loss of Brontosaurus in favor of Apatosaurus. Oops! I just checked for the spelling of these names and learned that Brontosaurus is back.

Well, then ... I was annoyed when Franklinia alatamana was renamed Gordonia. But Franklinia came back, too.

Orthography differences are difficult enough when languages share an alphabet. Eschscholtzia californica is an imposing name for the little golden poppy, and is absurd because the "schsch" represents a single Cyrillic character. But it was published that way.

Even worse examples can be mentioned, such as Belamcanda chinensis being renamed Iris domestica. This happened because the first publication had an image of a Belamcanda blossom next to an orchid stem.

Sometimes I learned that a name had been changed just as I finally became confident in pronouncing the old one.

Reply #4 of 4 posted yesterday by Jay-Jay
Hi Karl,
For the record: I was just adding some info and not doubting Your input.
Thanks heaven, that the Emily Brontosaurus has it's name back again. I like it spines that look like those of Polka... or is it the other way round?
Chips, I'm mistaken too, they look like the spines on the Stegosaurus
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