HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
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Initial post yesterday by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Why do so many listings present as, "thornless (or almost)", when very clearly they are not?

Is this part of the default system at HMF?

If so it really needs to be corrected.

Thanks, Robert
Reply #1 of 2 posted today by Patricia Routley
HelpMeFind has just two choices:
1. armed with thorns / prickles
2. thornless (or almost)
(for which I am a little pleased actually, as I have rose bushes here which on occasions can have four prickly canes, and one utterly smooth cane.)

The source link (David Austin website) says of 'Carolyn Knight': apart from colour, all other characteristics are the same as 'Summer Song' from which it sported.

The U.S. patent for 'Summer Song' says:
Prickles: Quantity.--On main canes from base: Ordinary, 4 per 10 cm stem length. On laterals from main canes: Ordinary, 5 per 10 cm per stem length. Form.--Concave curved inward. Length.--9 mm. Color when young.--Greyed-Purple Group 185A with Yellow-Green Group 146D at tip. Color when mature.--Greyed-Orange Group 164A at base, Greyed-Purple Group 184B at tip and along upper edge. Small prickles: Quantity.--On main stalks: None. On laterals: None.

If you can work out from that what we should list, we would be delighted to correct things.
You might like to see some homework I did to teach me about prickles years ago:

PRICKLES (prickles, bristles and glands)
Thorns spring from the wood. Stiff and immovable. A Bougainvillea has thorns
Prickles grow from the bark and can be easily rubbed off. Roses have prickles. Stiff and immovable.
Bristles can be moved as the hairs in a brush

Prickle Colour Immature _______ Mature _______ Old ________
____________ red, brown, grey, white, black

Prickle Duration
Caducous when they fall with or after the leaves and don’t stay on the wood long than 2 years.
Persistent when they become entirely woody, very hard and stay several years on the old wood.

Prickles - Where and number
Thornless; Almost thornless; Few thorns; Prickly;
Sparse (placed without order here and there); Grouped (several close together at certain places, while lacking in other place); Close-set; Dispersed; Scattered; Bristles (gallica); Intermingled with bristles (centifolia); Single; In pairs; Geminate (placed in pairs); Often paired; Infrastipular or stipulary (just below the base of a leaf or stipule)

Prickle - Shape
Simple; Compound (as in R. simplicifolia (Hulthemia persica); Alike - (all straight or all hooked);
Dissimilar (some straight, others hooked); Sharp spines; Thin sharp; Needle-shaped; Curved; Large curved (tea, bourbon); Slightly curved; In an Arc; Hooked; Very hooked; Falcate (hooked like a sickle); Straight; Nearly straight (alba) ; Flattened; Thin; Slender; Thick; Wide; Broad at base; Narrow at base; Width variable; Dilated at the base; Base enlarged; Base thick; Base compressed; Base decurrent (prolonged stemwards); Winged thorns; Wing-shaped; Thorny; Strong; Fierce; Weak (easily pushed off - gallica); Short; Long; Equal; Unequal;
Prickle - Size____________

Colour ______________;
Bristles can be moved as the hairs in a brush. Bristles; Rare; Sparse; Grouped; Numerous; Innumerable; Close-set; Stiff; Soft; Equal; Unequal; glandulose (topped by a gland; Stiff glandular hairs; Aciculi (needles); Setiform - thorns degenerated into bristles.

Colour ______; Sessile (no stalk); Pedicellate (stalk) ; Spherical; Oval; Disformed (irregular form);
Fragrant; Scentless; viscous.
Reply #2 of 2 posted today by Andrew from Dolton
I just looked at 'Summer Song' and the older growths have a few prickles scattered amongst them. However, there is a new shoot about 1M long and that is liberally armed with longish rather flat hooked prickles all along its length.
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Initial post 9 days ago by perpetua
how can such a tiny young plant produce such big gorgeous blooms?I'm new to gallicas and the more I see of them,the harder I fall in love!I'm just a tad worried that I won't prune them nicely,but I hope to improve with time.duchesse d'orient will definitely be on my next rose order.
Reply #1 of 1 posted today by Alma
Did you notice, that Duchesse d'Orient is no Gallica? It is sold as a Gallica but probably a Portland Rose.
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Initial post 3 JUN 13 by Patricia Routley
Photos of 'Single Cherry' seem to be the same as R. pimpinellifolia 'Rubra'.
Compare Celestialrose December 5, 2009 photo No. 137267 of 'Single Cherry'
with Jedmar's May 7, 2011 photo No. 181471 of 'R. pimpinellifolia 'Rubra' in Switzerland.

Has anyone grown them side by side?
Reply #1 of 2 posted yesterday by Les Racines du Vent
I've been growing the two of them next to each other for two or three years (R. pimpinellifolia 'Rubra' is older) and so far I have noticed no difference at all. Nor in blooms neither in prickles or leaves or growth habit. I don't know if the two roses are the same but at least the two clones that i have are identical.
Reply #2 of 2 posted today by Patricia Routley
Thank you for the feedback. I've run it past Peter Boyd to see what he says.
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Initial post 31 JAN 14 by bluebuster77
2" bloom is very small for hybrid tea but nice coloration
Reply #1 of 2 posted yesterday by jmile
I don't know where they got the flower diameter of 2 inches but my flowers' diameters are about 4 to 5 inches.
Reply #2 of 2 posted today by Patricia Routley
Thanks. We've upped the size.
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