HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
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StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
most recent 5 JUN SHOW ALL
Initial post 5 SEP by Lavenderlace
Very vigorous, extremely fast growth, lots of blooms in sandy soil, own-root, no-spray Z8. They are getting huge though, tall and wide.
Reply #1 of 11 posted 5 SEP by Nastarana
Along with SDLM, 'Evelyn' is the quintessential desert rose, loves sandy soils, as you say, and high temps, and seemed for me to need far less water than 'Graham Thomas'. You might also like 'Golden Celebration' if you have room for it. Those immense old gold cabbages are one of the glories of the rose world.
Reply #2 of 11 posted 5 SEP by Lavenderlace
Thanks for the tips! I thought that I didn't want any yellows, but they are doing so great here that it's hard not to love them so will check out Golden Celebration too. I stayed away from Evelyn for a while because of reports of how difficult she was but have found just the opposite.

And you're definitely right about SDLM, does great here too!
Reply #3 of 11 posted 5 SEP by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Golden Celebration is the BIGGEST WATER and POTASSIUM HOG as own-root. Mine is 7 year-old-own-root and needs deep-watering due to its deep & large root. Folks in rainy climate complain about Golden Celebration as blackspot-prone, versus dry & hot California folks complain about its being stingy. The only time Golden Celebration was healthy for me when I got horse manure at pH 8 monthly, and piled up 1 foot of that on top. Very hard to please roses which like it cool & tons of rain & loamy & alkaline. Crown Princess Magareta is a far better choice for its tolerance of hot & dry climate, both I and KBW in Pakistan rank CPM as less fussy than Golden Celebration. Still remember buying Golden Celebration from High Country roses spring of 2011, it came with a warning, "this rose needs more water than average."

The best yellow for hot weather is Julia Child. Saw that at local rose park when it was 104 F & month-long drought with perfect foliage in full-sun. But Julia Child's scent smells like cough medicine.
Reply #4 of 11 posted 5 SEP by Lavenderlace
Thanks so much for posting your experiences Straw! Always helpful to see how roses do in different climates.
Reply #5 of 11 posted 5 SEP by Nastarana
I had GC in the Central Valley in CA in part shade and it grew as a free standing shrub to about 5' tall by about 10' wide. The neighborhood cats used to hide their kittens under its' sweeping branches. For me it needed almost no extra water after the first two seasons and had no disease beyond the touch of mildew almost all roses got in early spring in that climate. I don't remember if it was grafted or not, if it was it was on Dr. Huey. Maybe the shade helped with water requirement. You might want to try it if you can find a plant for a reasonable price; I would not want to spend the $50.+ which many nurseries are now asking for much of anything except maybe for some much coveted extreme rarity.
Reply #6 of 11 posted 5 SEP by Lavenderlace
Wow, 10' wide! That's a cute story about it making a good cat house for the kitties!
Reply #7 of 11 posted 5 SEP by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
I posted in the wrong place, moved to Lagerfeld.
Reply #8 of 11 posted 6 SEP by Nastarana
Lavenderlace, when I lived in a desert climate, I found that winter irrigation helped a lot in keeping my roses alive through the hot summers. Winter irrigation, about once every three weeks if there is no rain, helps spread out the water bills and helps one keep plants alive without violating water restrictions.
Reply #9 of 11 posted 6 SEP by Lavenderlace
Thank you! We are in a high humidity, low rainfall area but this year has actually had more rain than usual. I agree with you about the winter irrigation, works great, but my plants are huge!
Reply #11 of 11 posted 5 JUN by Nastarana
I am glad she is doing well for you. I can't grow her where I live now, no matter what the DA org. says. I do miss those golden cabbages.
Reply #10 of 11 posted 5 JUN by Lavenderlace
Nastarana, thanks again for the tip on Golden Celebration! Shes working out great here so far and I think that I'm going to love the fragrance!
most recent 5 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 8 MAY 17 by Yankee Doodle Stevie
This has to be one of the most weather sensitive and frustrating roses we have ever owned. It's growth is not exceptional but, eh, passable enough I guess. But it's blooms always seem to disappoint for one reason or another.

In rain or dampness, they sulk and fall apart without opening properly. During cool nights (nothing really chilly, 50's-60ish will do) they ball up and are never right afterward. In heat, they fry before even opening.

It's a novel color combo, but that is useless in the garden if it only looks nice in pictures elsewhere. Ah well, can't win them all.
Reply #1 of 4 posted 9 MAY 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Rock & Roll has similar striped color & larger bloom & fantastic scent & 100% healthy for my neighbor .. hers grafted-on-Dr.Huey survived many zone 5a winters. I got Neil Diamond as own-root (Della Reese x Rock & Roll). I love Neil Diamond with glossy & dark-green foliage, red-striped-bloom with more petals & great scent & healthy in my alkaline clay, and cane-hardy in my zone 5a winter.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 9 MAY 17 by Andrew from Dolton
In my garden 'Scentimental' is very prone to blackspot.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 9 MAY 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Moved my post to Neil Diamond entry.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 5 MAY by Yankee Doodle Stevie
Hmm. Thanks for the info. I didn't really think of Neil but shall keep a lookout for him, and R & R, now. Sorry for the belated reply. I'm rather bad at checking my responses in general sometimes.

Far as Scentimental goes, it's still holding it's spot (gopher attack elsewhere got most of my recent attention.) It's doing a shade better this year for whatever reason. Even in our often cool spring, the mere happening of a cloudless sky degrades the flowers. When Pristine and Sea Pearl are holding up better, that says it all.
most recent 8 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 5 SEP by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
As a drought-tolerant rose, Miracle on the Hudson doesn't like wet potting soil and acidic rain. Saw a bunch of them in pots at Home Depot with lowest leaves turn yellow from weeks of spring rain. Rain in Chicagoland has pH 4.5, versus 5.6 on the West Coast.
Reply #1 of 13 posted 5 SEP by Lyn G
In my opinion, such broad generalizations such as the definition of the ph of rain on the West Coast is more misinformation than information. It's a BIG West Coast.
Reply #2 of 13 posted 6 SEP by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Here's the government link where I get the data of pH of rain across USA - long list of specific pH for specific region. pH of 5.6 for the West coast is Wikipedia's generalization, NOT mine. Best to argue with Wikipedia directly.
Reply #3 of 13 posted 6 SEP by Lavenderlace
Do they update it every year or is it a fairly stable estimation of every year? Interesting data to ponder in the mix of things!
Reply #4 of 13 posted 6 SEP by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
The link I posted previously is the latest-data composed by government in 2001 to the pH of rain across U.S.A. For a better map of acid-rain across U.S.A., shaded by different colors to show pH range dated in 1994, see below link. With more industrialization in recent years, the pH range would be more acidic than what's compiled in 1994.

My alkaline clay is a good buffer against acid-rain. In my garden-walkway, where I dumped coarse sand on top of alfalfa hay, the acid rain "melted" the fine-sand particles (they disappeared, even with a dozen bags of sand), what's left are tiny colorful pebbles that were in bagged coarse sand. Acid-rain converted hard-minerals into SOLUBLE fertilizer and the weeds went crazy in that sandy-walkway. I dumped the sub-yellowish clay plus rocks (dug below 2 feet) at the end of my garden .. I don't even bother rake it, or smooth it out. After a few months, the acid rain smoothened that out into a flat surface, but no weeds can grow in such heavy bad-clay. Amazing how acid-rain can flatten out lumpy rock-hard-clay, as well as making sand-particles disappear. That explains why Val who works for a rose-nursery in Florida plant roses a few inches. above ground, since the sand sinks down with acid-rain-erosion.
Reply #5 of 13 posted 6 SEP by Lavenderlace
Super info, thanks for posting!

By the way, pretty sure that Jim in PA, has posted some marvelous pictures of MotH. I think he's in Z5 or 6 but it's very rainy there. Maybe he'll see this and chime in because he's definitely figured out how to grow this rose!
Reply #6 of 13 posted 6 SEP by Lyn G
Straw ...

I am not arguing with anyone. I am speaking from experience. I know the ph in both my soil and water in my southern California garden was very different that what I now have in my garden in the mountains of northern California.

I think you are smart enough and know enough about roses that you can use good judgment to determine whether or not you should post a generalization like this, no matter what the source of information.

When a rose fails to thrive, there are often more than one variables at play that causes poor performance of the plant. Ph is only one variable. In your garden it may be a determining factor, but it's not a universal problem. Many roses can tolerate a wide range of ph and thrive quite well as long as they get the other resources they need to thrive.

I can understand why you focus so much on ph, but I think it's important that you evaluate the data you share more carefully.
Reply #7 of 13 posted 6 SEP by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Lyn: The info. I shared above took me at least 1 hour of research, I posted that 1st in Organic Rose forum years ago, others from South Africa, Pakistan, and Canada also contributed to that shared experience on acidic rain. It's more useful to honestly share about one's roses than nit-picking & criticizing & lecturing and controlling others.

OWN-ROOT roses behave differently at different pH, versus grafted on SAME ROOTSTOCK such as Dr. Huey which likes alkaline. ROOTSTOCK customize roses to fit one's locality better. In my current alkaline clay, my 110+ varieties are all OWN-ROOTS (bred from different soil & climate), plus a few same varieties on Dr. Huey or Multiflora.

pH level is also a factor in rooting DIFFERENT roses from cuttings and in growing roses from seeds. The reason why I posted on this drought-tolerant rose in a wet & acidic pot is it gave me insight to root cuttings better during flash flood. I have been growing roses since my 20's, but didn't get into own-root roses until 7 years ago. I'm in mid 50's, have 30+ years of experience, and if I count roses from my last house of acidic clay (grafted on Dr. Huey), it's way over 150 varieties.

In 2011 Ingrid in Antique Rose forum was hurt in the same way by you, and now I am stabbed with your sarcastic knife under a friendly mask. I'm off the comment section for good, but still post pictures in HMF (that's safe from nit-picking). My purpose of posting is to cheer & support & appreciate others & share my locality & help cold-zoners, but I still get lectured & criticized and lost sleep over this last night. There's a difference between honest sharing about one's roses, versus your domination and control. NOT WORTH IT.
Reply #8 of 13 posted 6 SEP by Patricia Routley
There isn't a sarcastic sliver in Lyn's very friendly face! She is an extremely valued HelpMeFind administrator who devoted years to helping others to grow roses. I really hope that you mean you are off HelpMeFind for good.
Reply #9 of 13 posted 6 SEP by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
I know Lynn since 2011 .. used to chat with her weekly via e-mail & in forums. Yes, I'm off for good & you get your wish. You gave me great idea NOT to post anything in HMF, including pictures. Praise God for this incident, it's to my advantage to be off: more time with family & true friends. Now I understand why people give info. in forums, but not in HMF.
Reply #10 of 13 posted 7 SEP by Give me caffeine
Well, I suppose we can call today the Last Straw.
Reply #11 of 13 posted 6 APR by jim1961
MOTH does great here in Central Pa no spray! Stays clean the entire season! I really
like this rose!...winters well here also...We get alot of rain but it does not effect MOTH...
Reply #12 of 13 posted 6 APR by Lavenderlace
Fantastic shiny leaves Jim!
Reply #13 of 13 posted 8 APR by jim1961
Thanks Lavenderlace!
most recent 8 MAR SHOW ALL
Initial post 6 OCT 12 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Chicago Peace is the Queen of Roses: the bloom so big and gorgeous that it's a centerpiece in any garden. One drawback: it's quite thorny, but the bush is compact so the risk is low.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 8 MAR by Jerilin
How is this rose for winter hardiness in zone 5a? Still loving it? Thanks
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