HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
John Hook
most recent yesterday SHOW ALL
Initial post 11 JAN 14 by John Hook
This rose is probably Philémon by Cochet 1822, a bengale-noisette
Reply #1 of 1 posted yesterday by Ambroise Paré
what about ‘’ Marie Nabonnand ‘ ?
most recent 12 SEP SHOW ALL
Initial post 19 APR 18 by Marlorena
I'm surprised to see this rose listed as a 'Tea'.. don't most people who know it think it's a China rose?
Reply #1 of 9 posted 19 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
Looking at the nurseries, Angel Gardens and Antique Rose Emporium both call it a tea. La Roseraie du Desert list a climber called 'Odee's Pink Noisette'.
Reply #2 of 9 posted 20 APR 18 by Marlorena
Thank you Patricia. I got mine from Roseraie in France, and it just surprises me that this rose can be thought of as either a Tea or Noisette. Not claiming to be an expert but it looks and behaves all China to my eyes. It's evergreen through my winter - Teas apart from Lady Hillingdon which seems to do as well here as anywhere, and Mme. Antoine Mari, are not the best for my climate, but Odee Pink sails through and blooms all summer.. just like China roses do for me.. It's also said to resemble the long lost China rose 'Irene Watts'...

I'm going to continue thinking of it as a China, as it just doesn't say 'Tea' to me... not yet.. and I don't see any sign of it becoming a climber in my conditions..

I see it was found in gardens in Texas, west of the Brazos river... I rather like that..
Reply #3 of 9 posted 21 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
Marlorena, perhaps you might like to query La Roseraie du Desert on their 'Odee's Pink Noisette' and whether it could be the same, or different from the one you purchased from them.

And take a look at the Australian foundling "Agnes Smith" to see if you see anything familiar in those photos.
I have a poor specimen of "Agnes Smith" and it has often struck me as having a good deal of china blood. Mine was so poor in fact, that in 2016 I thought I had better propagate it. The resulting three plants are doing very well (for my cool, acid soil conditions).
Reply #4 of 9 posted 21 APR 18 by HubertG
Just looking at the photos of 'Odee Pink', it doesn't look the same as 'Agnes Smith' to me.
Reply #5 of 9 posted 21 APR 18 by Marlorena
Patricia... that's an interesting rose in itself. I'm not convinced it's the same as mine though. Agnes is very pink in photos, like my Pink Gruss an Aachen, but that may be due to climate. My Odee is almost white, or blush white at best..
My rose appears to be the same as shown on its page, I was just surprised it was found in Texas, as I had been under the impression it was found in France. Obviously got that wrong..
Reply #6 of 9 posted 21 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
....... My Odee is almost white, or blush white at best..

It makes me wonder why it was named "Odee PINK" when it was found.
Reply #7 of 9 posted 21 APR 18 by Marlorena
I've just looked at some of my photos and it does have a pink centre when it opens, but blush white outer petals.
I might upload a photo just to compare..
Reply #8 of 9 posted 11 SEP by John Hook
I agree that this is a china. We only called it Odee's pink noisette as we received it with this name from the USA. it's not a climber. In my opinion this rose is probably the true 'Irene Watts' matching perfectly the description ' Journal des Roses' 1910
Reply #9 of 9 posted 12 SEP by Marlorena
Interesting John, thank you... I know you've said before about Irene Watts, so it's good to hear that confirmed again from such an authority as yourself.... it's a little treasure.
most recent 25 AUG SHOW ALL
Initial post 16 MAY 10 by John Hook
The Champneys commonly sold in Europe is a tall climber with flowers more double, darker and larger than Blush Noisette, it is also once flowering. The foliage doesn't match original descriptions (Many found in Dickersons book ie Less double than Blush Noisette, very pale pink and heavily clustering. 5 to 7 oval acute leaflets, narrower and longer than the leaflets of blush noisette). There are various reports of this rose being remontant and others, non remontant. I would guess that the rose was probably remontant with a background of 2 remontant roses and the excitement of the introduction. A found rose we have recently obtained has a probability of being correct, it appears the same as the rose at San Jose Heritage Rose Garden.
Reply #1 of 4 posted 16 MAY 10 by Margaret Furness
A couple of expert rosarians have told me that all the plants they've seen labelled Champneys' Pink Cluster in Australia have been Blush Noisette. Still looking to see if we have the real thing here.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 23 AUG by Duchesse
Margaret could you help me please. I am in Australia and I have just bought both Champney's Pink Cluster and Old Blush. (from the same supplier) are they different plants in Australia? I am just looking in The Royal Horticultural Society rose encyclopaedia who mark Champneys as a once bloomer. Here on HMF it says repeat bloomer. I'm confused. This significantly affects where I would plant it. Is it definitely a repeat bloomer in Australia? (the plant sold as Champneys)
Reply #3 of 4 posted 23 AUG by Margaret Furness
Old Blush should be a China, usually a bush unless it needs to climb to reach the light, and repeat-flowering.
Definitely different from Champney's Pink Cluster or Blush Noisette, which are scented Noisette climbers. It's likely you have Blush Noisette, so I'd go by the helpmefind page on that rose - repeat-flowering in flushes, climbs to about 2m.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 25 AUG by Duchesse
Thanks ;)
most recent 7 AUG SHOW ALL
Reply #1 of 8 posted 2 OCT 14 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Wow, seems to be dead ringer. Wouldn't it be nice to know we have this one back?
Reply #2 of 8 posted 2 OCT 14 by Margaret Furness
Good sleuthing, Patricia!
Reply #3 of 8 posted 3 OCT 14 by Patricia Routley
Was a guess - a hint only for John to consider 'Ophirie'.
Reply #4 of 8 posted 22 SEP 15 by John Hook
I did consider this early on but I ended up rejecting the idea as too many characteristics were different. I have another foundling from the Ariege that does match the descriptions but is virtually free of prickles so I'm not sure
Reply #5 of 8 posted 3 APR 19 by AmiRoses
And what about Nisida or Mondor ?
Reply #6 of 8 posted 28 MAY 20 by Patricia Routley
....or ‘Louis Leveque’?
Reply #7 of 8 posted 6 JUN by kai-eric
...looks alike rosette delizy - bristly pedicels, same foliage, same prickles. i have them some 5 meters apart. never wondered about similarities but right now they are blooming simultaneously and it is so obvious that they are the one and only thing!

after having compared madiran climber and 'souvenir d'un ami'/loubert(france) which is thought to be rosette delizy, i'm pretty convinced that both are the same variety.

the first set of pictures is showing madiran climber.
Reply #8 of 8 posted 6 AUG by kai-eric
the second one gives an impression of 'souvenir d'un ami' ex loubert(france). the blossom in the pictures carried 6 sepals but blossoms with 5 sepals are the rule.
Reply #9 of 8 posted 7 AUG by kai-eric
the two of them side by side
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