HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
John Hook
most recent 28 OCT HIDE POSTS
Initial post 28 OCT by John Hook
I think this rose may be closely related to 'Humes Blush'. The scent is very similar along with the flowers.
most recent 7 OCT SHOW ALL
Initial post 12 SEP by armand_212
This looks a lot like Maggie
Reply #1 of 14 posted 14 SEP by Patricia Routley
Thanks Armand. I've Noted that in the 'Zi Yan Fei Wu' file - and it is also Noted in the "Maggie" (syn. Eugène E. Marlitt) file.
It would be valuable to find out how old this "very old Chinese cultivar" actually is - or when it was first referenced in China.
Reply #2 of 14 posted 15 SEP by armand_212
Hello, its chinese name is 紫燕飞舞, if you google it you will see lots of pics and info (you may need google translate!) There are also a couple of websites from china and japan that indicate that this is Eugene Marlitt aka Maggie, and ive grown Maggie for decades and seen its growth habit in europe, asia and the usa, and I can say its a splitting image.
Reply #3 of 14 posted 15 SEP by Patricia Routley
Thanks Armand. I have added that chinese synonym.
You are the second person to say 'Zi Yan Fei (or Fe) Wu' is the same as "Maggie".
John Hook also noted that in his comment (below) that his plant of 'Zi Yan Fei Wu' appeared to be the same as "Kakinada Red".

It would appear that 'Zi Yan Fei Wu' should carry the double quotes of a "foundling", and merged with 'Eugène E. Marlitt'. But I am really cautious with this one and would love to have more input from rosarians - and perhaps that earliest date for Zi Yan Fei Wu.
Reply #4 of 14 posted 15 SEP by HubertG
This also makes you wonder more about other "old" Chinese roses such as 'Tipsy Imperial Concubine'.
Reply #5 of 14 posted 15 SEP by armand_212
Well, in Dr Wang Guoliang's book Old Roses in China, this rose is reported to be called Bao Xiang (Precious Portrait) by the Chinese, and Dancing Purple Swallows by the Japanese (the ancient japanese used chinese characters), and a rose by this name has been recorded since the Song Dynasty (960–1279AD), And he surmises that they are all the same, including Maggie, Pacific, Kakinada Red, Eugene Marlitt. Although I must say that the Kakinada Red I saw in India didn't look similar...
Reply #6 of 14 posted 16 SEP by Patricia Routley
For Armand_212 - and others.
Forgive my slowness Armand. It is spring and the sun is shining after months of grizzle drizzle - I should be "out there" so I am not concentrating too well. But as "Maggie" is a really important rose I am not going to do anything without the input from others.

It seems that we should:
Give 'Zi Yan Fei Wu' the double quotes of a foundling.
Change the name of "Maggie" (syn. Eugène E. Marlitt) - to just "Maggie"
Change the name of "Pacific" (syn. Eugène E. Marlitt) - to just "Pacific".
Merge "Zi yan Fei Wu" with "Maggie".
Make a new file for 'Madame Eugène E. Marlitt' (syns 'Eugène E. Marlitt' and 'Eugénie John Marlitt')
Transfer all relevant references for...Marlitt....out of "Maggie" and into the new 'Madame Eugenie E. Marlitt' file.
Transfer all photos entered under the name of ....Marlitt... out of "Maggie" and into 'Madame Eugenie E. Marlitt'.
(There are about 23 or so photos that were added under the name of ....Marlitt. Are any of these ....Marlitt, or are they all "Maggie".)
Reply #7 of 14 posted 17 SEP by Patricia Routley
In the absence of "other's" direction, I am tackling this rose as best I can.
What are the correct spellings please.
Zi Yan Fei Wu
Zi Yan Fe Wu

Bao Xiang
Reply #8 of 14 posted 17 SEP by armand_212

The correct forms are "Zi Yan Fei Wu" and "Bao Xiang"
Reply #9 of 14 posted 17 SEP by Patricia Routley
Thank you. I've merged the files. Please take a look. At this stage, 'Zi Yan Fei Wu' carries the single quotes and "Bao Xiang" carries the double quotes of a foundling.
Reply #10 of 14 posted 17 SEP by armand_212
Hi, Eugene Marlitt is commonly used as a synonym for this rose and many people believe that it is the same rose as which is commonly known as Maggie and Bao Xiang etc. should there be a mention of that on the maggie page?
Reply #11 of 14 posted 17 SEP by Patricia Routley
There is Armand. See the last line of the Notes.

Probably the line in the 2011 reference: "Hungarian rose breeder Rudolf Geschwind first introduced it as 'Julius Fabianics de Misefa', but it was later distributed as 'Eugen E. Marlitt'. " needs to be explored further, but I do not have the resources to do that.
Reply #12 of 14 posted 17 SEP by Patricia Routley
Armand, I have been reading Gregg Lowery's excellent article in the 2006 Rosa Mundi and adding bits and pieces from it to the references. It is an absolutely fascinating article, made even more fascinating for me by my long-held thoughts that my Australian foundling "Wilson Street Nannup" may be the same as "Maggie". I will certainly get a sucker of my rose and get it out into a full sun area to see if it repeats then. Thank you for your help, patience and advice.
Reply #13 of 14 posted 7 OCT by John Hook
We have "Zi Yan Fei Wu", "Kakinada red" and Julius Fabianacs. All have been growing in our garden for several years now. IMO "Zi Yan Fei Wu" and "Kakinada red" are the same but not the same as Julius Fab which among other things is consistantly more prickly. Although "Kakinada red" is Indian it is thought to have originated from China.
Reply #14 of 14 posted 7 OCT by Patricia Routley
Hello John,
I would suggest chasing back the provenance of your prickly ‘Julius Fabianics de Misefa‘ as far as you can go.
And talk to the nursery Rosenschule Martin Weingart. This from the references:

2006. Rosa Mundi p32. Gregg Lowery. Maggie – a Rose Mystery.
This all seemed to be resolving nicely but for one thing: nurseryman Martin Weingart had uncovered a rare Geschwind hybrid called ‘Julius Fabianics de Misefa’, introduced in 1902, that proved to be identical to “Maggie” as well!.
most recent 29 SEP HIDE POSTS
Initial post 29 SEP by John Hook
We grew this from seed given to us by Viru. We named it after the town that Viru and Girija live in
most recent 25 SEP HIDE POSTS
Initial post 25 SEP by John Hook
Lorraine Lee is sometimes confused with the climbing form. The shrub can reach 3 metres high but the climbing form is very vigorous. 6-7 metres here in SW France
Reply #1 of 1 posted 25 SEP by Patricia Routley
I would agree with that John. I once saw the climber at an old spot mill south-west of Bridgetown, Western Australia. The property had been burnt so long ago that it had all reverted to bush. In the midst was a Lorraine Lee of such a size that I thought I had better not take a cutting of that monster. I regret that now.
I’ve increased the sizes.
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