HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 12 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 12 days ago by maximumblue
looking for cutting from Mint Julep
most recent 9 SEP HIDE POSTS
Initial post 8 SEP by AnitaSacramento
From the Heritage Rose Foundation newsletter, Sept, 2021, page 8.
‘Arnold’—Lost in Plain Sight
Heritage Rose Foundation members learned about Arnold Arboretum’s Jackson Dawson and his rugosa hybrid
‘Arnold’ in 2017, thanks to a lecture from Benjamin Whiteacre at our Fredericksburg, VA conference and an
article that he wrote for our October 2017 newsletter. ‘Arnold’, a cross between a Rugosa and Hybrid Perpetual
‘Gen. Jacqueminot’ introduced in 1893, was one of Dawson’s triumphs: beautiful, healthy and repeat-blooming. He proudly
named it in honor of the Harvard University arboretum where he worked. Unfortunately, the fashion for rugosas was
waning. After brief popularity, ‘Arnold’ was virtually forgotten.
In 2018, it was thought that the rose was probably lost altogether in the United States. listed it in
Brooklyn’s Cranford Rose Garden, in Arnold Arboretum, and in the Friends of Vintage Rose’s collection, but it was not
with any of the three. In our newsletter, we asked our readers to help us find it.
Earlier this year, I visited Don Gers’ and Michael Tallman’s garden, Rose Woods, near Santa Rosa, CA. I spotted
a garnet-red, semi-double rugosa and was astonished to read its label. It was ‘Arnold’! This rose didn’t know it was lost,
and neither did its growers. How did it come to be there? Don Gers dug up a root division from rose collector Marion
McKinsey’s Sebastopol, CA garden in 1996. She got it from Gregg Lowery, who in turn obtained it from the late Mike
Lowe in New Hampshire. There the trail stops, but it’s known that Mike took rose cuttings from Arnold Arboretum as
well as Cranford.
Is this Dawson’s original ‘Arnold’? There is a 1994 herbarium specimen at Harvard, and a few photos and a botanical
illustration. So far, our ‘Arnold’ seems the same. Further study and analysis could confirm or deny this.
Don and Michael sent cuttings to HRF Trustee Dr. Malcolm Manners at Florida Southern College. He has propagated
it, and found that it struck readily. He is growing additional plants to send to Arnold Arboretum, whose Keeper of the
Living Collections, Dr. Michael Dosmann, is eager to add it to their collection and study it further. Malcolm and I will also
work to get ‘Arnold’ to commercial nurseries and public gardens to ensure that its future is never again in jeopardy.
One rose preserved, many more to go. ❧
note: In his article and lecture, Benjamin Whitacre theorized that the hybrid rugosa grown as ‘America’ in Europe is
synonymous with ‘Arnold’. We are excited to evaluate the new find against herbarium specimens and potential Arnold
plants from Sangerhausen and to continue to examine that possibility. Limited review of hip production on the Santa
Rosa ‘Arnold’ has cast some new doubts. Many thanks to Ben for pursuing this matter, and to Don Gers and Dr. Malcolm
Manners for lending their expertise and observation skills. a.c.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 9 SEP by Patricia Routley
Thank you for adding this reference Anita. I found the story of ‘Arnold’ most interesting.
most recent 22 FEB 20 SHOW ALL
Initial post 22 FEB 07 by Vintage Gardens Historical Archive
Tina Marie was not discovered by Phillip Robinson. We received this at Vintage Gardens from the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden; I think Mel Hulse can shed light on its origin.
Gregg Lowery
Reply #1 of 6 posted 23 FEB 07 by San Jose Heritage Rose Garden
Tina Marie was one of the roses originally planted in the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden. Unfortunately, I no longer have a reference as to where we got it beyond it having been grown for the Heritage by Tom Liggett. As Tom is a great fan of Grandmother's Hat with a several in his home garden and as Grandmother's.Hat frequently puts out color sports, It is possible the he discovered it.

Mel Hulse
Reply #2 of 6 posted 4 JUL 19 by AnitaSacramento
Tom Liggett has confirmed that he discovered and named Tina Marie. Please correct the HMF listing accordingly. It was not discovered by Gregg Lowery and Phillip Robinson, and Gregg does not claim that it was his discovery in the comments above. Thanks!
Reply #3 of 6 posted 4 JUL 19 by Patricia Routley
Hello Anita,
Corrected. I have used the same discovery date, 1998, as we had previously.
I wonder if we should merge ‘Tina Marie’ with ‘Larry Daniels’ 1995. Both are sports of ‘Grandmother’s Hat’ and both were discovered by Tom Liggett. It seems the sport is quite variable in colour.
My regards.
Reply #4 of 6 posted 4 JUL 19 by AnitaSacramento
Thanks Patricia. No, they are distinct. Larry Daniels is different in color. Grandmother's Hat sports readily - I have seen a pale colored version in a neighbor's garden.
Reply #5 of 6 posted 4 JUL 19 by Patricia Routley
OK. I read the Members Comments in both roses’ pages and got the impression that they are not distinct. Jill seemed to think they were probably the same. There seems to be variability in the colour in the photos.
Reply #6 of 6 posted 22 FEB 20 by Jeri Jennings
In our garden, 'Tina Marie' and 'Larry Daniels' were a quite different color tone.

L.D. only once produced a white bloom, and NEVER produced multiple shades on a bloom, which 'Tina Marie' does FREQUENTLY. I think it would be a mistake to equate them.
most recent 17 SEP 19 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 16 SEP 19 by AnitaSacramento
How may I update the as of date for the plant listing for Sacramento Historic Rose Garden? It keeps showing 14 Nov 2008.
Reply #1 of 6 posted 16 SEP 19 by Patricia Routley
You must have added or deleted a rose as it is now showing “Listing last updated on 16 Sep 2019.”
Reply #2 of 6 posted 16 SEP 19 by AnitaSacramento
If you click on "Plants grown" it shows the 2008 date. Yes, I have been updating - much overdue!
Reply #3 of 6 posted 16 SEP 19 by Patricia Routley
All gardens should be updated once a year. I pick early January to do mine.
I got on to my husband’s computer and, yes the update date is showing 2008.
On my (volunteer administrator’s) computer it shows 2019. We’ll get help on this one.
Reply #5 of 6 posted 17 SEP 19 by HMF Admin
Patricia, sounds like your husband's computer needs to refresh the cache. The procedure is slightly different depending on the browser used. It should be refreshing automatically though ?
Reply #6 of 6 posted 17 SEP 19 by Patricia Routley
Thank you Admin. We’ ... take it on board.
Later edit - I see. We got it. Ta.
Reply #4 of 6 posted 17 SEP 19 by HMF Admin
There is a UPDATE AS OF DATE button for changing this date. Is it not displayed for you ? Meanwhile, we've update the date for you but we still want to address this issue. The AS OF date is automatically updated if you use the UPLOAD LIST OF PLANTS feature.
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