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Recent Questions, Answers and Comments
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If this is a public garden in Canada, we can set up a separate garden listing for it.
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Is there anyone else who has trouble with believing that this is progeny of R. gigantea? Are there any other R. gigantea seedlings that stay to only one meter tall?? Sorry to appear skeptical, if not poorly informed, but it just doesn't seem to me to be very likely. That said, since there is no comment posted here raising any doubts about the stated parents, I guess no one else shares my skepticism.
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It was not uncommon for older hybridizers to simplify lineages or leave out a generation or two. Ralph Moore has been known to do this. My guess is there is a generation missing and that this cultivar is a self pollinated seedling of the cross as stated.
Remontant gigantea hybrids can stay in the 3' range as demonstrated by some of the early Teas. Mine is several years old, 4' tall and 3' wide with just a bit of shaping. FWIW
Robert
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Modern Roses V gives the parentage as 'Dainty Bess' x 'Double Gigantea' but in Modern Roses 6 it is 'Dainty Bess' x R. gigantea.
The 'double' a typo corrected in MR6 perhaps?
What are the chances the name 'Improved Cecile Brunner' has become attached to one of the earlier Rosy Morns - the rose pink polyantha, Burbage, 1930?
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#3 of 7 posted
6 DEC 15 by
CybeRose
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According to the patent application:
"It originated from a cross between Dainty Bess and the hybrid seedling Rosa gigantea, with Mme. Cecile Brunner as one of its earlier progenitors."
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Thanks Karl. We've added that sentence to the patent section on the main page.
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I have tried to view the patent for Improved Cecile Brunner, with no luck. Is the patent number given on the main page correct.?
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Try this link:
https://patents.google.com/patent/USPP851
Karl
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Very many thanks, Karl. It worked. I had tried all sorts of approaches before but did not get the result I wanted.
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Something that's not mentioned in either the references or description is that this has a sweet old rose damask type fragrance... not as powerful as some other Bourbons, but enough to walk around the garden with a bloom under ones nose..
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Double Delight isn't a bad plant, and there are much better actual plants out there, however the coloring of DD just can't be beat in the realm of bi-colors. And, they smell amazing. In Houston it may get a touch of mildew in the spring, or a little blackspot. Nothing tragic.
Double Delight is a garden staple and it's easy to see why it has stuck around so long. Everyone stops to gawk at it, everyone has to put their nose in it, and everyone loves it. It's a bit like having an antique car...sure, there are more reliable and more comfortable newer cars available, but the style and cache of this "oldie but goodie" just can't be beat. IMO, they certainly don't make them like this anymore.
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Cherry Parfait here resembles Double Delight very much. It doesn't have any scent to compare, but it grows without the fungal issues and keep pushing new flowers when Double Delight stops. If you love the Double Delight coloring and don't have to have the scent, but want a stronger grower with healthier foliage, try Cherry Parfait.
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Where does this colour changing ability come from? Would it originally have been inherited form a China rose like 'Archduc Charles'?
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Quite possibly. Some China roses deepen with age, heat and UV. European (and American) types fade.
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#4 of 8 posted
15 FEB 17 by
 jedmar
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I believe an important element is 'Rosa foetida bicolor' which is found in the ancestry of many (if not all) red/yellow bicolor roses. This rose has a high concentration of anthocyanin pigments (for red) on the upper side of its petals and an equally high concentration of carotenoid pigments (for yellow) on the lower side. These pigments are then found in varying combinations in its descendants. A good example is 'Rumba', where the red components deepen with time. It is thought that with UV light, biosynthesis of anthocyanins progresses in the direction of higher frequencies of light absorption (darker colours), while biosynthesis of the carotenoids progresses towards lower frequencies of light absorption (orange to light yellow to almost colourless). The resulting effect is that the rose seems to become redder with time. "The Chemistry of Rose Pigments" (1991) by Swiss chemist Conrad Hans Eugster gives a detailed description of these pigments and processes as relating to roses.
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That's very interesting, thank you Kim and Jedmar.
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Thanks for that. Interesting to know, and explains how the 'Charisma' in my garden works.
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#8 of 8 posted
yesterday by
kgs
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I hear that a lot (about Cherry Parfait being similar to Double Delight) but after comparing both roses in their glory at the International Test Rose Garden in Portland, I see why people say that and yet there's something about Double Delight's coloring that is more complex than Cherry Parfait. Maybe it's that there is more yellow in it.
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