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Initial post 10 days ago by Charlie in Vallejo, CA
I would like to know can anyone supply a reference to support the statement I've read that Graham Thomas disparaged 'Goethe.'
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Reply #1 of 7 posted 9 days ago by jedmar
'Goethe' is not mentioned in either of GST's books on Shrub roses.
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Reply #2 of 7 posted 6 days ago by Palustris
Yes, that's correct, but he did mention 'Goethe' in the GST 'Rose Book'

" A rather unsuccessful merging of two dissimilar parents, R. multiflora and a moss rose. Very vigorous, excessively prickly with much bristly brownish-green moss. Panicles of flowers are born freely; they are small semi-double or nearly single, light crimson to pink, with some scent. 5 feet"
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Reply #3 of 7 posted 6 days ago by jedmar
I am intrigued: where does he say that? The "Rose Book" is a compendium of his two books on Shrub roses plus "Climbing Roses Old and New" and I could not find a mention in any of These.
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Reply #4 of 7 posted 5 days ago by Patricia Routley
Page 64. In between ‘Gloire des Mousseux’ and ‘Henri Martin’.
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Reply #5 of 7 posted 5 days ago by jedmar
Those two are on p. 187 of "Old Shrub Roses" and there is nothing in between. It seems GST did not just add the 3 books, but revised the text. I will have to get the "Rose Book" too.
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Reply #6 of 7 posted today by kgs
Here's the citation:

Thomas, Graham Stuart. The Graham Stuart Thomas Rose Book. Portland, Or.: Sagapress/Timber, 1994.

The ISBN is 0881922803. A note in the bibliographic record states, "Comprising The old shrub roses. Shrub roses of today. Climbing roses old and new; enlarged and thoroughly revised." The last statement suggests GST not only compiled three books but added material.
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Reply #7 of 7 posted today by jedmar
Thank you, I ordered it! Cheapest was to buy it from USA.
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Initial post today by Viviane SCHUSSELE
Comment puis-je introduire mes rosiers (Spontaneous sowing ) semis spontanés
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Initial post 27 APR 14 by Michael Garhart
I'd strongly recommend Linda Campbell over Robusta any day. The former lacks the NASTY (yes, you will get cut. I did) thorns, the incredibly vertical growth habit, and the black spot defoliation of the latter. This was a rose I had strong regret over. It starts out looking quite nice, and it matures into a rose made of razors and awkward growth.
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Reply #1 of 6 posted 29 APR 14 by Palustris
I gave my 'Robusta' to a friend who wasn't concerned about the black spot defoliation. If this is used in a mixed border of perennials and woody shrubs it adds considerable color when in bloom and disappears when out of bloom.
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Reply #2 of 6 posted 29 APR 14 by Michael Garhart
Yeah, I think that is doable. If for a specimen, I'd go for Linda Campbell. The stems are fuzzy lol.
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Reply #3 of 6 posted 29 SEP by Plazbo
"It starts out looking quite nice"

I can agree with this bit, being new to my collection this year and approaching it's first blooms in the next week or so.....how I'll feel when the blackspot kicks in (in 5 or 6 months...hurray australia with summer temps that kill blackspot!). I'm not sure I agree on the thorns yet, they don't seem any worse than other rugosa (or hulmethia...I think those can be savage). I do have a lot of thorny things though...a lot of plants not too far from one species or another.
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Reply #4 of 6 posted 29 SEP by Michael Garhart
Oh, give it time. It develops prickles in the same manner as the Grootendorst clan. I tolerated the rose for 4 years simply because it was in a place I didn't want to water. I had Robusta, Fred Loads, and Golden Wings lined up in a row in a dry area. They thrived quite well. But Robusta became a nightmare to maintain, so it went after 4 years. Then Fred Loads went because it ages very poorly and blooms on a pillar above eye level. Golden Wings stayed for over a decade, and the only reason it was removed was because it was time to landscape that area with modern types, pathways, brick edges, landscape fabric, and cedar chips.

I had Linda Campbell since it came out, and it was only removed 2 years ago for landscaping reasons. MUCH easier to maintain. If one can't locate that, there are newer landscape reds. I like Miracle on the Hudson, Milano, Ruby Meidiland, and Urban Legend, but I'm not sure what choices you have in Aus/Nz.
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Reply #5 of 6 posted today by Plazbo
I'm starting to think whatever we have here as Robusta in Aus isn't the same as the USA. No blackspot to see at all and I have plenty of that around, the foliage is doing it's yellow autumn display along with the other rugosa and near hybrids so has remained clean the whole season. May be the different strains of spots at play or the multiflora root stock it's on doing something weird. Does seem to be triploid given the lack of hip set (unlike the other rugosas)....it's odd how healthy its been given the comments on here.
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Reply #6 of 6 posted today by Michael Garhart
It may have race resistance in AUS, but there is no way for me to know. It should still be deadly prickly and quite tall.
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Initial post 10 NOV 16 by Diana B
Does anyone happen to know who Elise Sauvage was, that she should have such a lovely rose named for her? Thanks!
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Reply #1 of 3 posted today by Ms.Lefty
Rose-biblio durchsuchen says that in the great rose-growing Vibert family there was at the time of breeding this rose an Eliza Vibert, b. Sauvage. This information came from Annales de Flore et de Pomone, Journal of jardins et des champs, 1841, page 15.
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Reply #2 of 3 posted today by Diana B
Thank you so much!
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Reply #3 of 3 posted today by jedmar
I wonder. The reference in the Annales relates to the rose 'Éliza Sauvage'. The information on an Eliza Sauvage married to a Jean Vibert comes from a Vibert family tree of Guernsey, which is a different one than our Jean-Pierre Vibert. The Eliza Sauvage mentioned and pictured married a Jean Vibert who was born in 1828. This means that she was at best around 10 years old when Miellez introduced the rose. We must still find an older Eliza Sauvage from the right region (Lille).
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