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Roses, Clematis and Peonies
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PhotoNWAE
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Initial post 10 days ago by Jay-Jay
Very nice coloration. Already interesting for its fall-colors. A bit like Berberis thunbergii.
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Reply #1 of 3 posted 10 days ago by jedmar
Autumn colours from R. foliolosa and R. nitida
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Reply #2 of 3 posted yesterday by Byrnes, Robert L.
I see the color similarity to Berberis thunbergii. Thank you.
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Reply #3 of 3 posted yesterday by Andrew from Dolton
Very similar to leaf colour to Rosa cinnamomea.
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Initial post yesterday by nobaranobara
I think this rose is suitable for HT.
There is "Thalassa, HT, m; Dorieux, 1978" on page 585 of the Modern Roses Ⅺ.
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Reply #1 of 1 posted yesterday by Patricia Routley
HT added. Many thanks nobaranobara
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Publication / Article / VideoRootstocks
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Initial post 4 days ago by Flame_Master
Hi Kim,
I live in Kerala,India which has a wetter tropical climate (I suppose in a way similar to the tropical climate in Hawaii). My soil is Clay Loam and sub soil is Laterite (rich in iron), Soil pH is acidic (~5.8-6.0), ~350ft above sea level, 2200mm of rain. Temperature climbs to 95*F maximum and 62*F min. Which rootstock would you recommend for my scenario? I have R.multiflora grafts available for purchase from the Northern subtropical regions, will they grow as fast as R.fortuniana? We don't get R.fortuniana grafts here but I've heard reports that they perform extremely well in hot climates (even not going dormant at 86*F heat), should I try to get a cutting and graft my roses over to fortuniana?

Regards,
Flame Master
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Reply #1 of 9 posted 2 days ago by Rupert, Kim L.
Hi Flamemaster, I don't know how multiflora might perform where you are. It has very good freeze resistance, which has nothing to do with your conditions. I would think you would do better with something like a Banksiae or even Brunonii or Gigantea, perhaps even an older Tea? . Viru and Girija Viraraghavan have bred many roses for climates which seem much like yours, if I'm not mistaken. They have used Gigantea extensively and even Tea-Noisette types such as Reve d'Or. Speaking of which, how does Reve d'Or perform in your area? If it does well own root, it might even be a potential candidate as a stock. Fortuniana' claim to fame here is its resistance to root knot nematodes and its vigor. Its disadvantages are the majority of its root system is very near the soil surface, making it less drought tolerant and more susceptible to mechanical and freeze damage. The freeze and drought issues aren't relative to your area, but the mechanical damage may be. I would investigate the Reve d'Or and Banksiae avenues before using multiflora there. I would imagine you should have them more readily available. If not, what other vigorous, climbing Tea types can you easily obtain there? Multiflora can be "T' or chip budded. Banksiae and Fortuniana require chip or cleft grafting. Most of the Teas and Reve d'Or should respond well to either method.
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Reply #2 of 9 posted 2 days ago by Flame_Master
I usually get some China budded as a rootstock from local nurseries. They grow painfully slow, a 3 year old Montezuma still just has 2 canes and 10 leaves for me. Compared to that, Multiflora is at least vigorous enough that the plant has foliage and some flowers for me.
I'll search for Banksiae or Gigantea. I've read a study on Gigantea being trialed as a rootstock, it performed really well in that study (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306037555_INFLUENCE_OF_ROOTSTOCK_AND_TIME_OF_T-BUDDING_IN_ROSE). However, I doubt whether gigantea would make a good rootsock because if it suckers at all, it might just take over my house from the accounts of it. Do you know about the roots of Banksiae and Gigantea?

Talking about old roses, Madame Isaac Pereira grows wild here, but grafts usually lack vigor. I was wondering whether Fortune's double Yellow would make a good rootstock. I haven't seen Reve d'Or around here at all (I'll try to find a specimen). I will also try to see whether one of Viru's Hybrid Giganteas might make a good rootstock, or ask him about it at least.
Thanks for the reply :) .
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Reply #3 of 9 posted 2 days ago by Rupert, Kim L.
You're welcome! Has there been an issue with Gigantea suckering? I grew it for a short time in my old Newhall garden and it died the first hard freeze of winter. I also grew Montecito, the Gigantea X Brunonii hybrid for years and it had no suckering issues at all. Banksiae roots quite easily here and it has intensely vigorous roots. It must be at least as vigorous as Fortuniana from the experienced top growth of them both. I still grow Nessie, my Montectio X Mlle Cecile Brunner hybrid and its roots are quite vigorous, too. I don't see why Fortune's Double Yellow wouldn't make a decent root stock. At least I don't know of any reasons why it shouldn't. Heaven knows it is vigorous and it grows well own root. We had a small nursery in the Los Angeles area back in the late 1980's who tried budding on Cl Cecile Brunner and found that plant was reluctant to accept any grafts he tried. Unless something odd like that appears with Fortune's, I would think it should be a decent stock, as long as it flourishes where you are. That's likely the best question I could ask...what THRIVES where you are, without suckering? That seems it should be the best candidate for a stock.

I can understand where any of the European type OGRs would suffer there with the hot, humid, wet, which is why I thought the Gigantea, Brunonii, Tea monsters should find it to their liking.
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Reply #4 of 9 posted 2 days ago by Margaret Furness
Does Fortune's Double Yellow sucker on its own roots?
A nurseryman in Australia's tropics is trying Carabella (Riethmuller) as a rootstock, but I don't know if you can obtain it.
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Reply #5 of 9 posted yesterday by Rupert, Kim L.
Hi Margaret! I've never seen any evidence of FDY suckering here and the four self seedlings I have of it don't sucker, either. I've not attempted to bud on any of them. What I would suggest to anyone attempting to determine what would be a good stock for their conditions would be to select all types which flourish own root where they are; are easy to root; then generate a number of them and begin experimenting to see if there are specific methods of budding that succeed more easily. Such as, Fortuniana and Banksaie require either cleft grafting or chip budding because of their brittle bark. Trying to "T" bud on them fails because the bark shreds. Multiflora types are easily budded using pretty much any method. Wichurana types are pretty much the same. Some, such as Pink Clouds, Ralph Moore's hybrid multiflora rambler, remain in condition for budding much of the year here, while other types have specific windows for budding where their barks slip easily, allowing access to the cambium layer. Generalizations can be made, but determining what works best and when, where you are requires experimenting.
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Reply #6 of 9 posted yesterday by Margaret Furness
Thank you.
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Reply #7 of 9 posted yesterday by Flame_Master
I searched around and found this
https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=21.337646
This is the 'multiflora' that is used as a rootstock in India. I don't know what 'multiflora' that is, but it has some nasty curved thorns.

I'll experiment on Gigantea and Banksiae and some old teas I can find. On a side note, I just had a look at Montecito's stats and my God that is Huge! Much of this experiment is to find a vigorous rootstock so that I don't end up with 2 canes and 10 leaves in a 3 year old rose again and this discussion has widened my possibilities on my trial candidates.

@Margaret Furness: I don't think I can find Carabella here, but I'll ask around. Please post his trial results if you can, maybe we can expand this section with a collection of Roses that would be good rootstocks on our respective climates and soil types. Also what about Alister Clarke's hybrid giganteas as root stocks there?
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Reply #8 of 9 posted yesterday by Rupert, Kim L.
Your multiflora looks along the lines of multiflora carnea. Most of the multifloras which have been selected for stocks seem to have been chosen because of their lack of prickles. Ralph Moore's "Rum 10" was a thornless selection from his Australian agent, Roy Rumsey. Because of their thicker cambium layers and ease of rooting, multiflora types make very easy stocks. Of course they have other issues which prevent their universal appeal, but particularly for beginners, they are EASY. Gigantea should work as easily with "T" budding as chip budding. Banksiae and Fortuniana must be cleft or chip budded as their barks are far too brittle and will shred if "T" budded. Please let us know what you find. It will be interesting seeing what works well for you! Good luck!
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Reply #9 of 9 posted yesterday by Flame_Master
Thank you so much! I'll certainly post my progress and trials. For now, I need to go on specimen hunting.
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