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'Otto von Bismarck' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 63-430
most recent 9 MAY 12 SHOW ALL
Initial post 10 APR 12 by Margaret Furness
I'd like some clarification on this one. According to a reference, for some years from 1900 there was an annual competition for the best new seedling of German origin, to be named 'Otto von Bismarck'. The rose described here is pink, from 1908. However there is an illustration dated 1900. Was that a different rose? (Or as a passing thought, a typo?)
1900 was the year that the rose eventually named 'Frau Karl Druschki' was entered in the competition.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 10 APR 12 by Patricia Routley
It doesn't seem like it was an "annual" competition as we might have ended up with eight 'Otto's'.
Harkness in the 1978 reference has an answer. However I think the date of 'Otto Von Bismarck' might be better listed as Bred: prior to 1900. Introduced: 1908.
Reply #2 of 8 posted 11 APR 12 by Margaret Furness
Sorry, I should have made it clearer. If my French is reading the Journal des Roses reference correctly, the competition was held annually, with the prize increasing gradually from 1,000 marks to 3,000, but it wasn't awarded till some years after 1900. The Journal des Roses reference says it was raised by the house of J-H Schmidt of Erfurt. The Gardener's Chronicle reference of 1906 says the winner was H Kiese of Erfurt; perhaps he worked for J-H Schmidt. So maybe the prize was won in 1906, and the rose introduced in 1908.
I don't have a copy of the Journal des Roses, to check whether the date on the illustration is a typo.
Reply #3 of 8 posted 11 APR 12 by Patricia Routley
Oh shavings and sawdust #*#*** I wish I had learned French. thanks Margaret.
Reply #6 of 8 posted 11 APR 12 by jedmar
Exactly. Kiese was chief gardener of the nursery of J.C. Schmidt, the prize awarded in 1906 and the rose introduced in 1908. 'Frau Karl Druschki', at the time still unnamed, had participated in the original competition in 1900, but the judges found no rose to be good enough to be called 'Otto von Bismarck'. So, Lambert named his rose FKD and commercialzed it and was out of the game. The original prize money of 1000 Marks was increased first to 2000, then to 3000, to no vail - nothing was good enough! Finally in 1906 Kiese's rose made it. The irony is that FKD went on to become one of the hottest introductions of the early 20th century, while Kiese0s 'Otto von Bismarck' almost disappeared.
Reply #7 of 8 posted 11 APR 12 by Margaret Furness
Thank you; the extra references make it clear.
Back to the illustration from the Journal des Roses: is the date of 1900 a typing error, or is it a drawing of the rose (later Frau Karl Druschki) that someone asumed would win?
There is a long sad saga of Gold Medal Winners from the early days of the British National Rose Society, which disappeared quite rapidly. The show bench is no judge of a good garden rose.
Reply #8 of 8 posted 9 MAY 12 by 16-Eichen-Rosenschätze
It is a good garden rose, anyway. In it's forth year it is up to 2 m, well branched and very floriferous. In comparison to Frau Karl Druschki it is definitely the better rose not only because of It's wonderful fragrance.
Reply #4 of 8 posted 11 APR 12 by Cà Berta
In Rosen-zeitung 1901 some references (pags 93 and 118) relative to this issue are reported. Unfortunately I cannot translate them!!
Reply #5 of 8 posted 11 APR 12 by jedmar
I have translated the snippets. Unfortunately, Google's dates are not always correct, this is from the Rosenzeitung of 1907 (maybe 1906-7), not 1901, as p. 99 of the same reference lists the roses 'Le Flambeau' and 'Nova Zembla', both introductions of 1907.
Discussion id : 59-037
most recent 2 DEC 11 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 2 DEC 11 by anonymous-1173896
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