HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'Applejack' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 97-229
most recent 6 AUG 18 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 1 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
How does the scent of the leaves compare to the original sweetbiar (in terms of strength)?
REPLY
Reply #1 of 12 posted 6 FEB 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
From my experience, there is little scent to the Buck rose's foliage, while Eglanteria can carry many feet on the air under the right conditions. The scented foliage is one of the reasons I grew Apple Jack.
REPLY
Reply #2 of 12 posted 11 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
I wonder if there is a way to get a continuous flowering sweetbriar.

Beggeriana supposedly is weakly remontant, as is agrestis. They both supposedly carry the sweetbriar scent.

Maybe use a fragrant foliage bourbon like Gloire de Rosomanes or Grandma's Hat to cross with Rubiginosa and toss Magnifica into the mix and just aggresively inbreed them.
REPLY
Reply #3 of 12 posted 11 FEB 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
Eventually, you probably could get repeat. Who knows what (if anything) the foliage might smell like; what the flowers would look like or how healthy it might be?
REPLY
Reply #4 of 12 posted 26 JUL 18 by Michael Garhart
One could probably do something like this:

[(Modern tetraploid x (Rosa glutinosa x modern tetraploid)) x (Rosa glutinosa x modern tetraploid)]

Then self if required, even if 1-3 generations. Would highly suggest very powdery mildew selections of modern tetraploid. Like the moss roses, the rose can be highly resistant to powdery mildew, but the soft mossing (or the fragrant fuzz on the foliage) can get powdery mildew. Would also suggest the modern tetraploids to be quite short and recurrent.

This type of project would take 10-20 yrs to complete.
REPLY
Reply #5 of 12 posted 26 JUL 18 by JasonSims1984
Hehe. Rinse and repeat!
REPLY
Reply #6 of 12 posted 26 JUL 18 by Rupert, Kim L.
I would substitute the tetraploids with fertile triploids to increase the chances of picking up more of the foliage traits you're after. I've had a number of roses which wouldn't cooperate with tetras work quite remarkably with triploids. They've been so cooperative, I go to them first and then to the tetras when I have extra pollen or don't mind having the efforts have greater chances of being "in vain".
REPLY
Reply #7 of 12 posted 28 JUL 18 by Plazbo
R. glutinosa has the canina meiosis doesn't it? That may add to the complexity of the situation, especially if it's like R. rubiginosa in that the foilage fragrance is passed via seed (at least until the canina meiosis is broken)
REPLY
Reply #8 of 12 posted 28 JUL 18 by Michael Garhart
It takes 2 generations to break the meiosis. I've done it many times. Foliage is easy to retain.

The caninae clan has been doing wonders at cleaning up wood. A lot of commercial roses get a lot of diseased wood in our very wet, cold winters. The caninae clan cleans it up very swiftly, which is nice. Same for lesser spot diseases (like cercospora) that show up in very early spring months.

The downside is that most of the caninae clan has climbing genetics. Specifically, throwing climbing basals in August/September/October, but not in the early warm season. Rosa glutinosa avoids this hassle, but it's much more prickly that most of the others. Much like rugosa prickles.
REPLY
Reply #10 of 12 posted 29 JUL 18 by Plazbo
Is it consistent?

I'm in early days of breeding with various R. rubiginosa derivatives (and seed collected from feral plants...could be species could be hybrids to some extent). Have a lot of seedlings from Lord Penzance growing at the moment (it's almost as if every seed germinated) with various classes so if the breakdown is fairly consistent it may mean this generation may be free of canina chromosome oddities (but not be reblooming......although some f1 foetida are unexplained rebloomers so a weird fluke could happen)....I need to think about that and if it changes anything, was just going to breed them with themselves until a rebloomer turned up...possibly test it with some (slightly) glandular moderns as seed parent.
REPLY
Reply #11 of 12 posted 6 AUG 18 by Michael Garhart
Summer Wind has Applejack's scent, but its only on the buds. Its an everblooming shrub type -- probably tetraploid (behaves and breeds like one -- never microscoped the pollen), so that could probably lessen the vast amount of years of such a project.

Rubiginosa will not just fully germinate, but the birds will spread it far and wide. Be careful. It's a weed. I have seen it wild in Montana and Idaho. In one mountain pass of Idaho, through the state forest highway heading towards Montana, you can see both Rosa rubiginosa and Ros foetida in rock cliffs where soil collects. Rosa canina is wild here in Oregon where I live. It can be found for about a 50 mile radius.

So ya gotta be careful with them.

Is cercospora resistance consistent in breeding? It has been with Rosa canina. Probably with glutinosa, but I need more to see a wide extent. I dont know with Rosa rubiginosa, because I abandoned it very quickly. It had to many cons vs. pros to justify the years required for species breeding.
REPLY
Reply #9 of 12 posted 28 JUL 18 by Plazbo
There would be. I mean Raddlers Alaska reportedly contains some of the foliage scent (to what extent I don't know, it's not here but wish it were) on a far more modern repeating plant. Which would come from Applejack (so maybe not as strong as a real sweetbriar) given many of his plants heavily feature Applejack in their pedigree (via his own crosses with Applejack and via Carefree Beauty) and Applejack traces back to Magnifica (which appears to have passed some of the related rubiginosa genes via pollen).

So there is some evidence that it's possible. What we have may not be the best results possible but that's not surprising when the goal of the breeding's (Applejack reportedly has vertical resistance to some strains of blackspot, would assume this is why it was used a lot in the early crosses by Raddler. Applejack appears to be a chance result of combining two Magnifica derivatives, but apparently goldbusch can pass on foliage scent).

I suspect the biggest issue in using moderns on this front will be that moderns for the most part have been increasingly selected for shiny foliage which is probably going to trap the scent or prevent it from being as free as it is in the species....but that's possible down to selection and can be worked with.
REPLY
Reply #12 of 12 posted 6 AUG 18 by JasonSims1984
A ton of roses have fragrant foliage. Foetida and eglanteria are not the only ones. There is such a neat world to work with.

Fedtschenkoana is a gem. I love it. It's so thorny but it's great. A lot of the biggest breaks come from lines where the competition pressure is low.

It's like getting a community college education at 35. People will support you at not hate you. Lol. You think it's the other way around but it's not. You're supposed to be
a successful surgeon but who gives a hoot? You can be a successful drag queen. Hehe.

Wait.....which pills did I take and which ones are kicking in? Is this the rose forum?

Oh. Yeah. Rosa fedschenkoana. That's my recommendation. Applejack, goldbusch(its parent), fedt, golden angel(a fragrant yellow used in miniature breeding) and moss roses. Just mix it up. There's a californifica crossed with a fragrant yellow that has fragrant leaves. Just keep doing your research on those mosses and fragrances.

It will all snap together, and keep introducing new blood into your lines. Applejack is fine to carry in but don't rely on it 4 and 5 generations in. It will just lose its influence. I think Salet and William Lobb, and reblooming mosses will carry a project further mixed with wild eglanterias.

Get Autumn Damask for sure to cross to eglanteria and mosses to keep a common ground.

I'm going to make some rugosa x moschata, and some (rugosa x bracteta) x moschata. They will be invasive and remontant as hell for sure. That would be a good skeleton.
REPLY
Discussion id : 103-813
most recent 1 AUG 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 1 AUG 17 by Sambolingo
Available from - Old Market Farm
www.oldmarketfarm.com
REPLY
Discussion id : 95-913
most recent 16 NOV 16 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 16 NOV 16 by Michael Garhart
This rose is a 10' climber here. Easy to train. 2 bloom sets.
REPLY
Discussion id : 92-459
most recent 30 APR 16 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 30 APR 16 by Greenman
After 4 years I am donating this rose at the annual local plant giveaway, for no other reason than that it had gotten too large for an all container garden, and I felt it would be happier if it could stretch its roots and branches as well. The plant had a long, large spring flush but I never got any repeat. It was _super_ hardy, one of the very few plants that could be left outside in a pot during the winter and show no dieback at all. (This is zone 6, but it survived a very cold winter three years back when it was still rather small),
REPLY
© 2021 HelpMeFind.com