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"David's Not Marechal Niel" rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 128-923
most recent 27 AUG HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 27 AUG by kai-eric
as to 'harry kirk' i can help out with some impressions of the plant labelled 'harry kirk' at sangerhausen, in addition to my entries resp.'harry kirk' database
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Reply #1 of 3 posted 27 AUG by Margaret Furness
Thank you.
The clues to "Fake Perle" extend to “Wood Street Buff-Yellow”, found in Balingup, WA. " Very similar to “Fake Perle” except that the colour is buff-yellow to apricot, and the new growth is even darker."
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Reply #2 of 3 posted 27 AUG by kai-eric
a possibility might be 'medea' ,a canary yellow variety of 1892 which was said having more spreading habit.
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Reply #3 of 3 posted 27 AUG by HubertG
I've given serious consideration to "Fake Perle" possibly being 'Medea' before. 'Medea' was a rose that seemed to do well in Australia and regularly appeared in the recommended roses list in the papers.
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Discussion id : 109-604
most recent 29 MAR 18 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 26 MAR 18 by HubertG
Maybe Dickson's 'Mrs. James Wilson'?? . I know Lockley mentioned this a bit and it doesn't seem to be a rose that really took off in Europe, so maybe the warmer drier weather here in Australia suited this very double rose?
Is it fragrant though? 'Mrs James Wilson' was described as well scented.
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Reply #1 of 9 posted 27 MAR 18 by Margaret Furness
Looking at the photos, I see pink in the bud, but not on the petal edges of an open flower. Nice try though.
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Reply #2 of 9 posted 27 MAR 18 by HubertG
Maybe another Dickson rose Miss Alice de Rothschild?? That was hailed as a dwarf Marechal Niel. Very double , exhibition style with a Marechal Niel perfume. The colour matches at least.
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Reply #4 of 9 posted 27 MAR 18 by Margaret Furness
Full face view looks promising. The proof of the pudding is in the details...
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Reply #3 of 9 posted 27 MAR 18 by HubertG
Or maybe Coquette de Lyon. It was described as 'ranunculus form' which seems to match the open flower, but I just uploaded a photo which shows a reasonably high centred bud which also still matches the opening flower. There is a reference here to how well it grows in California. Also described as good for bedding. Just some more food for thought.
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Reply #5 of 9 posted 28 MAR 18 by HubertG
Maybe look at Duchesse de Bragance. It is a seedling of Coquette de Lyon, and had red new foliage and even reddish sepals which seems to be a feature of 'Fake Perle'. Also, the Journal des Roses illustration shows a splash of red on the buds.
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Reply #6 of 9 posted 28 MAR 18 by Margaret Furness
Same problem as Coquette de Lyon. If the illustrator got the buds and receptacle right, it doesn't match. Pity we have only the one picture.
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Reply #7 of 9 posted 29 MAR 18 by Patricia Routley
To the best of my ability, I've summarised all these guesses on the main page.
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Reply #8 of 9 posted 29 MAR 18 by HubertG
Duchesse de Bragance could still be a possibility. I can't find a reference saying that is had a 'renuncule' form, and the only depiction so far really just shows a very double rose, which has probably tested the skill of the artist.
Especially too that DdBragance is descibed as having only the occasional thorn.
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Reply #9 of 9 posted 29 MAR 18 by Patricia Routley
OK. 'Duchesse de Bragance' now back in the realm of a possibility.
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Discussion id : 106-521
most recent 17 NOV 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 15 NOV 17 by Tearose
Judging by the pictures, I think your rose may be a match for our "Giannini Tea" found in the Sierra foothills. Doesn't help with the ID, but if we have it in two countries, we at least know it was once commercially available and not a chance seedling.
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Reply #1 of 13 posted 15 NOV 17 by Margaret Furness
Would you post photos of your rose, please?
"Fake Perle" has two sources but they were from the same property, so they may have been the same. One was sent to WA as Perle des Jardins. the other was labelled Marechal Niel at Ruston's roses; hence the two study names, "Fake Perle" and "David's Not Marechal Niel".
I've had an own-root plants for several years. So far it is low-growing for a tea, and spreading; and very floriferous.
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Reply #2 of 13 posted 15 NOV 17 by Tearose
Here's a link to some pictures I have online. I'm sure there are more, which I'll look for, but these show some plant details.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3EfgWGCXMnpf7zEG3
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Reply #3 of 13 posted 15 NOV 17 by Margaret Furness
Thank you - I'll pass it on to the experts.
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Reply #4 of 13 posted 15 NOV 17 by Tearose
I'm having a problem posting links to the bloom photos. I've tried half a dozen times, and when I click on continue, it disappears.
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Reply #5 of 13 posted 15 NOV 17 by Margaret Furness
Might be worth posting just one at a time, and see if that works. I have a vague memory that there are website security issues with posting multiple links on one message.
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Reply #6 of 13 posted 15 NOV 17 by Tearose
Bloom photos one at a time:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kC3ZbPErA1tcu9C83
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Reply #7 of 13 posted 15 NOV 17 by Tearose
next photo:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Hmsg9pv8RELGQgoD3
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Reply #8 of 13 posted 15 NOV 17 by Tearose
last photo:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/lFhVwgynUfn9alZo1
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Reply #9 of 13 posted 15 NOV 17 by Give me caffeine
Yes, HMF does have a one link per post restriction. AFAIK there are no security problems with multiple links. I suspect they included the restriction more as a deterrent to spammers.
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Reply #10 of 13 posted 16 NOV 17 by Margaret Furness
Thank you. I think the receptacles of "Fake Perle" are broader. I'll post some prickle photos later.
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Reply #11 of 13 posted 16 NOV 17 by Patricia Routley
Jill, would you like me to open a page for "Giannini Tea"? That way you can add photos direct to the page.
We can always merge "Giannini Tea" and "Fake Perle" later if they are proved to be the same rose.
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Reply #12 of 13 posted 16 NOV 17 by Tearose
Yes, that might be a good way to do it. Thanks!
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Reply #13 of 13 posted 17 NOV 17 by Patricia Routley
Done.
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Discussion id : 84-666
most recent 4 MAY 15 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 3 MAY 15 by Give me caffeine
The Tea Rose book makes this one sound very interesting. Admittedly, one of the problems with the Tea Rose book is that it makes them all sound interesting, which is likely to be bad for one's sanity and wallet if not strictly controlled.

Anyway, it's odd that this Australian foundling is only available from one European nursery, since it seems to have quite a few things going for it. This naturally leads me to wonder what its faults are, since the only one mentioned in the infamous book is that perhaps it wants to flower too much sometimes (the plant that is, obviously the book is not likely to flower, although from the look of some of the photos it wouldn't really be surprising if it did).

Can someone who has grown this rose give an opinion of its pros and cons, and whether they think it is generally worth growing? Also, if it is worth growing, any known sources?
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Reply #1 of 4 posted 4 MAY 15 by Patricia Routley
For me, cool wet winters, dry summers, my ten year old plant plant on Fortuniana rootstock is still under half a metre. It is an interesting rose with its very red new foliage and the few blooms are lovely, but I would not call it a garden specimen in my cooler climate.

Sorry, I don't know where you would buy it from in Australia.
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Reply #2 of 4 posted 4 MAY 15 by Margaret Furness
There are quite a number of roses in Aus, Teas and others, which have been lost in Europe; a few have been re-introduced to Europe in recent years.
My plant is on its own roots, and is low-growing so far, and floriferous.
Your best bet with roses that are in Aus but not listed by nurseries on helpmefind is to contact Heritage Roses in Australia in your state, and ask if anyone knows who sells it, or can give you cuttings. That way you don't trip over quarantine restrictions.
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Reply #3 of 4 posted 4 MAY 15 by Patricia Routley
"Fake Perle" is in the Tea-China-Noisette collection at Renmark. Are there arrangements with any nursery to propagate these roses?
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Reply #4 of 4 posted 4 MAY 15 by Margaret Furness
The sign we put up recently says: if a rose you like isn't available, ask a specialist nursery to propagate it for you.
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