HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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We have had warm weather up into the eighties; the petals baked. It is in mostly sun. Does it need moire water? Less heat?
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Golden Celebration needs LOOSE & LOAMY & alkaline soil for FASTEST water-uptake. If you put a straw into clay, versus a straw into a glass of water with loose pebbles, it would be easier to draw up water from pebbles/water, than from dense clay.
There's a guy in San Francisco who proved that plants wilt easily in the heat with dense clay, but when he made his clay loamy by mixing in 50% wood-chips, they no longer wilt, despite full sun & hot temp.
My Golden Celebration was in full-sun, loamy & fluffy ALKALINE composted horse manure .. leaves never wilt. Then I moved it to heavy & dense clay, 4 hours morning sun only, tons of rain-water from the gutter .. and it wilted in the sun. Why? The clay is too dense, so water can't be drawn up. Plus I put too much gypsum which drove potassium down. Potassium is needed for retention of water & water-osmosis. The solution to Golden Celebration: make the soil loamy for best water-uptake & supply potassium.
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That's a great explanation, thanks Straw!
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Adding humus to heavy soils also opens them up and creates suitable conditions for the natural mycorrhizal fungi to flourish. Everyones a winner.
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Agree to that !! Horse manure is best when it's at least 2 year-old and become humus & dark brown and moist. But the best humus is from decayed leaves, very fluffy, much easier for roots to go through than aged horse manure. Leaves in my zone 5a take at least 2 years to decompose to neutral pH.
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Golden Celebration as own-root likes it alkaline & much more vigorous and healthy if the soil is moist & alkaline and loamy. Now is 92 F hot & dry, and blooms don't scorch in full-sun, since I watered with my pH 9 tap-water, and the blooms have a better scent than with acidic rain. Comte de Chambord next to it have crispy-fried blooms in the heat. Golden Cel's blooms did fry when it was 1st-year own root, but mine is 7th year own-root, so root is deep.
I give it high potassium & high phosphorus, NPK 8-20-40, plus gypsum in the planting hole for its zillion petals. Blooms smell like cup-cakes fresh from the oven (if pH is alkaline), but lesser-quality or gone with acidic rain water. I had seen pictures of Golden Celebration with tons of blooms in a pot, so this rose can bloom well with alkaline-tap-water. I like it so much, I wish I had bought more.
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Im looking to try a little cross breeding project does anyone here know weather or not this is fertile in pollen or makes hips? and if not which DA are not sterile
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#7 of 7 posted
11 days ago by
 Nastarana
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'Golden Celebration' makes round green hips which are the size of small crab apples.
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Certified Roses website shows St. Tropez as a floribunda, not hybrid tea. See,http://certifiedrose.com/images/sttropez.pdf
Quote:
Fact Sheet
New from Certified Roses for 2018
St. Tropez
(cv. ORAsyda, Rose Alleyson) PPAF
Fragrant Apricot Orange Floribunda
Class: Floribunda
Plant Habit: Medium height, 3 to 4 feet
Growth Habit: Upright to rounded, bushy
Stem Length: Medium
Foliage Color: Medium green & glossy
Disease
Resistance: Very good
Flower Color: Lasting apricot orange
Bud Form: Turbinate
Flower Form: Fully double, ruffled
Flower Size: Large, 5-inch diameter
Petal Count: 30 to 35
Fragrance: Strong licorice candy
Parentage: Easy Going x Top Notch
Hybridizer: Rosaraies Orard
Introducer: Certified Roses
Selling Points:
• What a color! The scrumptiously luscious almost-edible apricot-orange blossoms
redolent with the perfume of sweet anise can easily conjure up dreams of a cool
tropical cocktail and warm sandy beaches.
• Loads of full ruffled flowers adorn this beautiful bushy plant. Its attractive rounded
habit is clothed with an abundance of glossy green clean leaves, perfect for the
poolside, patio or landscape.
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Thank you Kathy, Do you think it is a floribunda, or a hybrid tea?
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The photos all seem to show the single blooms of a hybrid tea, and not the clustering of a floribunda.
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Its three grandparents are all floribundas.
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As were its parents. I'll add Floribunda. Justin, are you watching/listening.
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But. it does look very much like a hybrid-tea
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Well, I just got it as a bareroot, so I haven't seen it bloom yet, but Certified, the introducer, puts a label on each plant that says florrie.
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A wandering bee, perhaps?
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Oh dear. I thought you knew the rose well. Just because someone else says it was "something'" doesn't mean we have to accept it when we can see it might be "something else". HelpMeFind is all about guiding gardeners towards the truth. The breeder themselves list it as "Grandes fleurs". Isn't that a hybrid tea?
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I disagree. The purpose of listing it as a hybrid tea or florrie should be consistent across the databases, and having one database, such as HMF, exercise its "independent judgment" should be avoided. If the seller says it's a florrie, then it is. Period. And any listing here as a hybrid tea would just plain be in error, no matter what HMF's independent judgment is.
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I have to say I disagree with the above statement. The rose should be described in its profile as what it ACTUALLY is and not whatever tradesmen decide they would like to market it as. This is exactly why so many varieties get muddled and lost. This is exactly why HMF is so important, precisely because its judgement is independent.
There are two forth generation roses that are hybrid-teas but all other descendants are floribundas. The breeder's description of "Grandes fleurs", doesn't this translate to grandiflora? Just to throw a spanner in the works. Even so I would still expect it to still have cluster flowers as well as single stems. It would be very interesting to see what other members are growing as 'St Tropez'.
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One of the problems that occurs when HMF reassigns a rose's classification to something more of HMF's liking is that for American rose shows, you must correctly exhibit a rose in its properly assigned class. This rose would be disqualified if exhibited in the "hybrid tea" class (which class is combined with grandifloras, but not floribundas over here). And since there is essentially a continuum of rose characteristics, with many roses "correct" class being quite debatable -- many, if not most, roses show some characteristics of one class and other characteristics in another -- the default position, in my opinion, has to be the one which the entity selling the rose has chosen. If HMF must reassign roses to some other class than the seller has assigned to it, at the very least there should be a notification that it has done so on the homepage for that rose.
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I can understand it must be very frustrating. If as Patricia states "The breeder themselves list it as "Grandes fleurs"", this must indicate what type the rose is. I am ashamed to say that my French beyond what I can do on translating websites is very little. What is the French for Floribunda, Grandiflora and Hybrid-Tea? If the rose is classed as a Grandiflora then, under your system, it must be classed with the Hybrid-Teas. Even though it is very clear from its linage that it is definitely a Floribunda. And its growth is very like a Hybrid-Tea.
I am way over my depth here!
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#15 of 24 posted
17 FEB 18 by
Marlorena
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Mons. Orard also calls it a Hybrid Tea. This is from his website..
Souvent appelés Hybrides de Thé, ces rosiers sont le plus souvent uniflores (une fleur par tige)et poussent à environ 1.00 m de hauteur.
Often called Tea Hybrids, these roses are most often uniflorus (one flower per stem)
and grow to about 1.00 m in height.
Grande Fleurs = Hybrid Tea...
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Orard describes this rose as a hybrid tea:
Rosier ROSE ALLEYSON ®
Ora 295-08 (ORARD)
Type technique : Grandes fleurs
Les rosiers à grandes fleurs:
Souvent appelés Hybrides de Thé, ces rosiers sont le plus souvent uniflores (une fleur par tige)et poussent à environ 1.00 m de hauteur. Les fleurs bien turbinées possèdent généralement entre 30 et 60 pétales. Les variétés proposées sont toutes remontantes. Plantations tous les 45/50 cm, pour massifs et fleurs coupées de jardin.
The habit and breeder description appear to contrast with Certified's label. Mind you, "le plus souvent..." notwithstanding, in Photo Id: 310687 one *can* see a few sprays of flowers.
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I just made an inquiry to the grower. We'll get to the bottom of this.
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Hello Robert,
Did you ever get a response from the grower as to how this rose should be classified?
Regards, Andrew.
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I'm going to chime in here. I agree with Kathy.
All references have traditionally adhered to the official classification made by the breeder and the recording body.
In my opinion HMF and it's users would be best served by following suit.
Any opinions expressed by growers can be shared in the comments section.
Classification of roses is a messy business and one that no doubt will continue to evolve over time.
Best wishes, Robert
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The breeder, Orard, says it is a Hybrid Tea (Type technique : Grandes fleurs), as shown above. It is the grower, Certified -- presumably the sole distributor stateside, who has employed the floribunda label. So I'm not sure where that leaves a rose exhibitor.
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#20 of 24 posted
27 MAR 19 by
Marlorena
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I said that a year ago... see reply #15 above... surely it's down to the breeder how a rose is designated..
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Plant architecture and bloom size are similar to its grandparent, Remember Me, which would be considered a grandiflora had it been bred in America. But it was not. It has broader petals and far few prickles than Remember Me, which is nice.
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Would the matter be resolved with a description to the effect of "floribunda habit -- Marketed as a hybrid tea"?
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I dunno. It is confusing because the categorical systems are not congruent, and what matters is that the purchaser understands what they are purchasing. In a very minor way, it matters for exhibition, but exhibitors make up a minority of rosarians, and they tend to use their purchasing power for the same set of roses. A classic example would be a purchase order for 20 plants of 'Gemini'.
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Thanks. I just broke down and bought the thing as a big box bare root, and if the thing survives the hacked, stacked, and sacked procedure, I might eventually be able to provide commentary beyond this "is it or ain't it a florrie" thread.
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It's interesting that some of the pictures of this rose show yellow shades and others, especially dee choi's photograph have pink tones instead. The plant I purchased from David Austin is pale lemon in bud during the summer opening white but in cooler autumn weather has a lovely soft yellow colour in the centres of the flowers. Definitely no pink anywhere, maybe warmer climates make a difference.
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#1 of 3 posted
12 MAY 21 by
newtie
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The rose sold to me as Prosperity has a pink tint to opening blossoms that then turn white. There is another Pemberton rose,Pax, now virtually lost from commerce in the United States, that has a light lemon tint to its beautiful buds. They open to a warm ivory white. It is a sprawler that sends out long canes, so I assume it could be grown as a climber. Its leaves are more elongated than Prosperity's and take on a grayish green tint as they mature. I am growing both Pemberton roses and both are outstanding in humid southeast Mississippi, 60 miles North of the Gulf of Mexico. To me, there is something very sophisticated about Pax. The buds are relatively small with a very classic high centered shape that remind me of Ophelia but a bit smaller. The foliage is also interesting. It's a shame this very fine rose is being lost from commerce.
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Have you considered whether ARE might be willing to reintroduce Pax? It sounds like a winner for the American south.
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#3 of 3 posted
15 JAN by
newtie
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I would encourage ARE to do that. I'll suggest it to them. It is too nice a garden rose not to be offered. My clone was custom rooted for me by Greenmantle Nursery in Ettersburg California. Another reason it should not be lost is because it can't be easily substituted for by other roses. It is a very sophisticated garden rose, not flashy, has understated beauty and quite healthy. Was named Pax to commemorate the end of WWI.
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Initial post
19 OCT 07 by
Unregistered Guest
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I also would like to (urgently) know more about this rose! To what zone has this been successfully grown? (I am in Western Maryland, in a mountainous region with many niches ranging through Zone 6a, 6b and 5. The garden is full-sun, south-facing, protected by the house to the north ...I believe I am in the zone 6 range.) Has anyone in my zone/region successfully grown this as a tall climber? Does this rose tend to bleach out considerably with full sun, or does it retain the pink/gold coloration? Is the foliage lush and healthy or is it sparse? How long and how prolific is the bloom time, etc? I am looking for a romantic tall climber of this coloration to wrap around the columns and arch over my wrap-around porch. Ideally, I am looking for a plant that will reach 15 to 20 feet, have foliage that looks nice when the plant is not blooming and have glowing yellow and pink blooms. I am almost to the point of giving up and settling for a tall pink climber like Cecile Brunner or New Dawn that is reliable but not so exciting to me (I really like the yellow mixed in) or looking for a prolific, tall red climber. Any suggestions, comments? (suggestions on tall, prolific red climbers also welcomed!) Thanks very much, all suggestions welcomed! Cynthia
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This rose is a hooker (leaps out and grabs passers-by). Don't plant it anywhere near your house or a path! Ditto New Dawn. It would be worth asking a local nurseryman about Crepuscule in your district.
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Rosa dumalis is just like that, each curved prickle perfectly angled like a miniature sickle that will rake a bloody furrow at the slightest provocation.
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I had a similar problem with R. wichuraiana poteriifolia. Tiny little hooks. I had the plant in a pot on a wall. Somehow the slightest breeze sent the wiry canes right at me. And sometimes no breeze, I 'm sure. Mean little critter.
Rose growing is not for sissies.
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Yes!
Wichurana 'Thornless' has the same issues, no prickles on the stems, but prickles on the underside of the leaves are vicious!
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Today I have my third weekly appointment to check the dressing on a ‘Laure Davoust’ inflicted slice on my leg when I took the mower a little too close to the rose. It won’t stop me from loving roses, but it does remind me to take more care.
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Years ago, I was visiting the Heritage Rose Garden in San Jose. I stopped to sniff 'Penelope', one of my favorite Hybrid Musks, when I saw a plump hip that was just out of reach from above. I crawled under the large bush, grabbed what I wanted, then pulled back just a little too quickly. That's how I got an impressively large thorn stuck in the back of my head, just below the skull. I moved forward a bit, and much more cautiously, and got unhooked. Somehow I lost interest in hip collecting for the rest of the afternoon.
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These are reasons why I've been obsessed with creating smooth roses for years and have submitted many beauties for trial. Invariably they were shot down for one reason or another. don't fare as well in cold storage for some reason but with production methods going toward own-root production this should be less of an issue.
IF the public made smoothness a priority the market would respond.
I still have a bone to pick with HMF since truly smooth roses cannot be identified here.
In my opinion, going forward, HMF should attempt to list grades of smoothness, or lack thereof.
Roses are always evolving and there is no reason whatsoever the future should include the horrors of being sliced alive in perpetuity.
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#9 of 9 posted
26 SEP by
Lee H.
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By the end of the growing season, I’ve become so insensitive to prickles, that unless one gets me in the face, I hardly notice. Recently, I found my wife fretting over our dog, who apparently was tracking bloody paw prints over the house. Turned out that I’d tangled with one of my babies, and blood was dripping down my arm, unbeknownst to me. The dog had only stepped in it.
And no, she didn’t fret over me; quite the opposite, actually ;-)
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FDYC is generally thought to be a tea or even gigantea hybrid and, alas, likely not hardy colder than one 7. Howsomever, wait another 2-4 yrs. and you might find you are in that zone, LOL.
Have you considered any of the newer Kordes climbers, among which there seem to be some quite nice yellow and goldish cultivars? If it were me, I would of course plant my two yellow climbing faves, 'Cl. Sun Flare' and 'Golden Celebration', but neither of those is pinkish. Another fave is 'Polka', for the color you want, but I don't know how well it could be trained.
If you want a single rose, Austin's 'Morning Mist' might suit. I've not grown or seen it, but it is said to grow tall, pix show a large, color changing flower. I, myself, am not a fan of 'Westerland', but it does have a large following and is not hard to source. I seem to recall that John Clemons introduced at least one climber in the colors you want. Maybe check the Heirloom website.
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