HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Andrew from Dolton
most recent 5 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 6 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
A bright pink sport on 'Paul Crampel'.
Reply #1 of 4 posted 6 days ago by Patricia Routley
Looks good. I note some dates
1930 ‘Paul Crampel’
1967 ‘Camping’ pink blend sport of ‘Paul Crampel’
2019 ‘Glamping’ is my weak suggestion for an appropriate name for this bright pink modern sport.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 5 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
Interesting. I always wanted to name a rose Irene Elsie after my grandmother but she was very much a floribunda/hybrid-tea rose grower and would not have understood the appeal of a rose like this. The sport is larger growing with bigger flower clusters than 'Paul Crampel' and I thinking 'Glamping' would suit it well.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 5 days ago by Patricia Routley
Am glad you like it Andrew. It was just a bit of silly fun to lighten the day.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 5 days ago by Jay-Jay
Glamping sounds to me better than the in Canada heard term: "Trailer Trash".
A nice finding Andrew!
most recent 8 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 3 MAR 16 by Amateur
Does anyone know if it suckers?

We are in Michigan, USA zone 5
Reply #1 of 18 posted 3 MAR 16 by Patricia Routley
No time just now to go and check, but I am sure mine suckers a little. I have a note that a website said it will sucker if disturbed.
Reply #2 of 18 posted 4 MAR 16 by Amateur
Thank you Patricia!
Reply #3 of 18 posted 4 MAR 16 by Margaret Furness
I've seen it suckering a bit on a road verge. (It's a declared weed here, like R canina; they're mainly bird-spread.)
Reply #4 of 18 posted 4 MAR 16 by Amateur
I am new to this site and it is amazing in the amount of information and photos available and moreover the (worldwide) members are so passionate and generous and it's been less than a week for my membership. I am beginning to understand a few reasons how a person could devote their life to working with roses.
Reply #5 of 18 posted 11 days ago by Arturo Tarak
I know from direct observation, that this species is spread via the guts of herbivores here. The seedlings appear en masse in the cow dung pads. It also appears with horse faeces. My sheep love it and all the heavily grazed paddocks are rose free. On the contrary I haven't seen it along usual bird dropping sites, where other berries germinate like quite a few Cotoneaster species. Of course I couldn't argue against bird dispersion but here the main way seems to be large animals. It is VERY invasive here. I spent the first 4 years cleaning my farm of it, and suckers kept sprouting everywhere. Initially it was an inpenetrable bramble. Complete hillsides are covered with it in fairly sandy, sunny positions, also windswept . I was only able to reduce the existing population to something manageable only after about 15 years...It is said that it was brought initially by the first European settlers in the beginning of the 20 th century across from Chile as a way of creating barriers/hedges against cows wandering into cultivated areas. Nowadays there's an industry developed around the medicinal use of the hips, included medicinal oils.The hips are used to make a hip jelly and sold as tourist novelty.
However as rose gardener I wonder if it can't be used as a rootstock, since its so well adapted here( or many other places as I read). I'm also interested around its disease resistance. I've not seen black spot on it. So clearly its a species that at least here has a lot to provide.
Reply #6 of 18 posted 10 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
My garden is very bad for back spot with even the native Rosa arvensis being very prone to it. But rubiginosa always grows very healthily.
Reply #7 of 18 posted 10 days ago by Arturo Tarak
Thank you Andrew for your comment. It certainly has valuable attributes to be considered even if it were from (my) amateur breeding view. Arturo
Reply #8 of 18 posted 9 days ago by Plazbo
It's BS resistance can break down pretty quickly in breeding despite the canina meiosis (which makes it difficult to work with), eg Lady Penzance.

I do have feral OP year old seedlings that are somewhat healthier than Lord Penzance and Lady Penzance seedlings but they don't stand out as being massively different, maybe they'll change with age but probably not.

Given it's very wide native range, declared weed status in many parts of the world, it's clearly a survivor with wide adaptability but it also has a lot of faults that make it difficult to work with.
Reply #9 of 18 posted 9 days ago by Arturo Tarak
Its invasiveness is foremost. It suckers freely. It is succeptible to mildew ( I've seen it in some years even with hips mildewed). It is very thorny that makes it difficult for rootstock purposes. Its so widespread here that I'm reluctant to add it to my plants grown HMF listing !. Any other fault to consider? TY
Reply #10 of 18 posted 9 days ago by Plazbo
From a breeding point it's canina type meiosis (only passes on 1 set of chromosomes via pollen, while seeds pass 4 sets), it can be broken with repeated outcrossings but at that point how much rubiginosa is left is going to vary greatly.

Some would also consider once blooming a fault....with the above meiosis regaining rebloom is potentially far more difficult.
Reply #11 of 18 posted 9 days ago by Arturo Tarak
If I understand your point correctly, since its a pentaploid, to keep its virtues one ought to use it as a seed parent instead of pollen?. I just was reading about Flame Dance . It is an outcrossing with R.kordesii. ( no ploidy provided) With my very first aproximation, apart from the multiple trials done by Lord Penzance, the other breeder that has brought rubiginosa into further cultivation is W.Kordes II.
Reply #12 of 18 posted 9 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
In its native climate this is a great plant to grow.
Reply #14 of 18 posted 9 days ago by Arturo Tarak
Here during late spring the apple scent is everywhere! its about trying out to "weed" out its negativve traits. Its so well adapted that common sense would indicate that its adaptability ought to be brought into the less vigorous species/cultivars. I'm thinking along the kordesii line or other rugosas that are black spot resistant. Would a BS resistant rootstock also reduce BS susceptibility to the grafted scion? In the fruit industry the rootstock is actually used to improve disease resistance. This is unclear to me however with Rosa hybrida. Developing much better rootstock beyond R.multiflora ( here) is one of my specific interests.
Reply #16 of 18 posted 9 days ago by Plazbo
I'm not sure Kordes worked with the species directly, without looking further in to it. I know they used the Magnifica hybrid but that hybrid appears to have broken down the canina meiosis to some extent. If you follow the lineage of Apple Jack and Gold Busch (which have some of the briar foliage fragrance and s3em to be able to pass it on as pollen or seed some 9f the time) back their nearest rubiginosa ancestor is Magnifca used as pollen so atleast some of the time it seems its passing on genes the pure species only passes on maternally. If I had access to Magnifica I'd be throwing its pollen everywhere but its not in Australia.
Reply #17 of 18 posted 8 days ago by Arturo Tarak
Is there any danger or risk if one were to get perhaps frozen pollen of Magnifica?
Reply #13 of 18 posted 9 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
'Lord Penzance' and 'Lady Penzance' also have Rosa foetida for blackspot too.
Reply #15 of 18 posted 9 days ago by Plazbo
Honestly I feel the foetida blame is exaggerated, it's not like the Bourbons, Portlands and Hybrid Perpetuals are amazingly healthy despite their complete lack of Foetida ancestry, some of them are outright gross getting near complete BS coverage. Its not a night and day difference between feral op seedlings and LP seedlings.

Foetida itself has been clean here, I allowed it to go dormant in summer when its growth slowed and started to drop leaves. Look at first and second gen hybrids like tip-top, hazeldean (and siblings), carefree copper which are healthy....odd for a species thats commonly blamed for introducing blackspot into the genome, maybe it was just bad selection, common use of spraying and the rush to introduce yellow roses early on that lead to poor speciemans going to market.
Reply #18 of 18 posted 8 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
I grow foetida 'Bicolor' and rubiginosa, they are both healthy here. 'Lady Portland' and 'Bourbon Queen get black spot very badly.
most recent 12 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 13 days ago by Marlorena
If you have a themed border of orange and yellow... this rose fades to peaches and cream...the foliage is richly dark and glossy but prone to blackspot where I am,
…. best kept to a pot I think...
Reply #1 of 3 posted 12 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
My garden 12/7/19.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 12 days ago by Marlorena
I hope you're happy with it... I'm surprised you have it Andrew... you certainly get a good mix of colours there..
Reply #3 of 3 posted 12 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
I love stripy roses! The only trouble is that it gets black spot badly.
most recent 17 JUN SHOW ALL
Initial post 14 FEB 17 by drossb1986
Double Delight isn't a bad plant, and there are much better actual plants out there, however the coloring of DD just can't be beat in the realm of bi-colors. And, they smell amazing. In Houston it may get a touch of mildew in the spring, or a little blackspot. Nothing tragic.

Double Delight is a garden staple and it's easy to see why it has stuck around so long. Everyone stops to gawk at it, everyone has to put their nose in it, and everyone loves it. It's a bit like having an antique car...sure, there are more reliable and more comfortable newer cars available, but the style and cache of this "oldie but goodie" just can't be beat. IMO, they certainly don't make them like this anymore.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 14 FEB 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
Cherry Parfait here resembles Double Delight very much. It doesn't have any scent to compare, but it grows without the fungal issues and keep pushing new flowers when Double Delight stops. If you love the Double Delight coloring and don't have to have the scent, but want a stronger grower with healthier foliage, try Cherry Parfait.
Reply #2 of 8 posted 15 FEB 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Where does this colour changing ability come from? Would it originally have been inherited form a China rose like 'Archduc Charles'?
Reply #3 of 8 posted 15 FEB 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
Quite possibly. Some China roses deepen with age, heat and UV. European (and American) types fade.
Reply #4 of 8 posted 15 FEB 17 by jedmar
I believe an important element is 'Rosa foetida bicolor' which is found in the ancestry of many (if not all) red/yellow bicolor roses. This rose has a high concentration of anthocyanin pigments (for red) on the upper side of its petals and an equally high concentration of carotenoid pigments (for yellow) on the lower side. These pigments are then found in varying combinations in its descendants. A good example is 'Rumba', where the red components deepen with time. It is thought that with UV light, biosynthesis of anthocyanins progresses in the direction of higher frequencies of light absorption (darker colours), while biosynthesis of the carotenoids progresses towards lower frequencies of light absorption (orange to light yellow to almost colourless). The resulting effect is that the rose seems to become redder with time. "The Chemistry of Rose Pigments" (1991) by Swiss chemist Conrad Hans Eugster gives a detailed description of these pigments and processes as relating to roses.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 15 FEB 17 by Andrew from Dolton
That's very interesting, thank you Kim and Jedmar.
Reply #6 of 8 posted 15 FEB 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
Thank you, Jedmar!
Reply #7 of 8 posted 15 FEB 17 by Give me caffeine
Thanks for that. Interesting to know, and explains how the 'Charisma' in my garden works.
Reply #8 of 8 posted 17 JUN by kgs
I hear that a lot (about Cherry Parfait being similar to Double Delight) but after comparing both roses in their glory at the International Test Rose Garden in Portland, I see why people say that and yet there's something about Double Delight's coloring that is more complex than Cherry Parfait. Maybe it's that there is more yellow in it.
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