HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Member
Profile
PhotosFavoritesCommentsJournalCuttingsMember
Garden
 
Andrew from Dolton
most recent yesterday SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 7 FEB 12 by DonaldQuRoses
I refuse to buy a rose named Ketchup and Mustard! Please please please - roses are elegant and should be named that way. It looks like a beautiful rose, but with that name all I can see is a hot dog --- and I'm a VEGETARIAN! ;)
REPLY
Reply #1 of 29 posted 7 FEB 12 by Kim Rupert
But, might not those condiments also be appropriate for a veggie burger? As for "elegance" in rose names, you're forgetting ones such as "Happy Butt" , "Sweet Revenge" and "Crazy Dottie". Nothing "elegant" about those and there are many, many more.
REPLY
Reply #2 of 29 posted 7 FEB 12 by DonaldQuRoses
Many many wrongs don't make a right! ;)
REPLY
Reply #3 of 29 posted 7 FEB 12 by Kim Rupert
"Tofu" included! LOL!
REPLY
Reply #4 of 29 posted 8 FEB 12 by Aurelija D.
That's what happens, when the rose naming is done before the lunch. :)

I am with DonaldQuRoses on this one though, it is a very no-awe inspiring rose name.
REPLY
Reply #5 of 29 posted 8 FEB 12 by Jay-Jay
Piccalilly....oh I'm sorry.... Piccadilly is in the parentage too!
(and Peace off course!)
REPLY
Reply #6 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Seil
I don't let the names bother me too much any more. If the rose is lovely I don't really care what the breeder decided to name it. There are too many really gorgeous roses that are named after politicians and so called "stars" that, except for their names, I want. So I just buy what I like and to heck with the names. Unless you exhibit and need to have the correct "Approved Exhibition Name" (AEN) if you find a rose you really love with a name you hate just buy the rose and pick your own name for it! Whose gonna know or care?
REPLY
Reply #7 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Kim Rupert
I've honestly bought many over the years simply due to the name. At the "entrance" to my old desert garden, as it bordered a private golf course in a planned community, I planted Buck's "Hi Neighbor" as the greeting to the garden, though I honestly don't like the rose. I planted Hiroshima's Children next to Pearl Harbor. All of the "booze" inspired were planted together in "the bar". Tequilla Sunrise, Champagne Cocktail, Courvoisier and a number of others named for either alcohol or drinks were "tended" there.

I grew many which were named for notable, strong, intelligent women, Marian Anderson,
Madame Chiang Kai-shek and others, held their court together. Though I've never grown it, The Wife of Bath is probably one I should as Bath's Wife was a formidable woman for her time!

The names don't have to be elegant to have meaning. Personally, I think the British have the best idea from a marketing standpoint. Name them for special occasions, making them the perfect gift for each one. I would add support for "catchy" names such as Eyes for You as it's actually lyrical, "I only have eyes, for you..." I think women's names are a sure bet to make them marketable, too. How many times have you at least been tempted to buy a rose (or other plant) to honor someone because it was their name? Believe me, it can be a very emotional moment! I planted a fuchsia in a friend's garden I'd found, which bore her name. She called to tell me how much she loved it. I asked if she'd red the tag. She returned, exclaiming, "it's MY name!" The next time I saw them, her husband came up to me, wrapped his arm around my shoulder, looked me in the eye and said, "Ya made my girl cry!" I apologized and asked if that was a good thing. He winked and said, "Thanks!" I thought it very sweet after forty years of marriage.

Why must only minis get the catchy, "cutsie" names? At least Ketchup and Mustard FITS the coloring of the rose and doesn't gag me like names such as "Angel Face". Argh!
REPLY
Reply #8 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Seil
Oh, I too have bought my share strictly because of the name. At one time I had one for each member of my family except my brother Alan. He was very disappointed because we just couldn't find any rose named Alan.

And I confess I like the cutsie names! I bought Tattooed Lady because the name just tickled me and I don't even have a tattoo. Once I got the rose I found the name really does fit the look of the rose too. I love the name "White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth" and wish I could grow it here. "Tipsy Imperial Concubine" Is another great one.

For my money I hope breeders don't all decide to get all serious and only use "elegant" names. I hope they continue to come up with fun and sometimes intriguing names. My brother dubbed one of my seedlings out of What a Peach, "Son of a Peach" and I like it, lol!
REPLY
Reply #9 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Kim Rupert
Tom Carruth told the story of a peach colored moss mini he created some years ago. The naming was a collaborative effort in the office. One of the marketing people suggested the name they went with, Peach Fuzz, and then from then on, he checked to see how "his rose" was doing. I agree with you about cute names. I've been accused of using "quirky" names. Perhaps. I'm still looking for just the right seedling to name, "Tequilla Mockingbird"!
REPLY
Reply #10 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Seil
Lol, I love it, Kim! I think it would need to be yellow and orange stripes myself.

I'll bet that naming that rose Peach Fuzz gave that worker the feeling he had a vested interest in the rose so he wanted to keep track of it.
REPLY
Reply #11 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Kim Rupert
I'm sure of it. Can you imagine how exciting it was for him to go home and tell his family HE named their new rose, then share such a clever name with them?

I love the stories behind them such as the ones for Just Joey and Hi. They're cute and real. I really must retaliate for Angel Face and name one "Kissie Face"!
REPLY
Reply #12 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Jay-Jay
We grow Warm Wishes at our front door; not for the name, (that's a bonus) but for the colour.
But my wifes taste altered and this autumn we'll plant there brighter and smaller roses: Tintinara.
We'll keep the W.W. and plant them elsewhere in the garden.
REPLY
Reply #13 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Aurelija D.
Hm I normally do not buy a rose because of the name, although some are a nice bonus (like Jude the Obscure, Distant Drums, A Whiter Shade of Pale or Alchemist).

I wish there was more naming based on a literature/movie characters than the real people. To give a well know example, a name Princess Leia would say more than a name Carrie Fisher, an actress who played her in the SW saga, or Arwen Evenstar would say more than Liv Tyler, who played her in LoTR.

I have a fair share of the obligatory real "ladies" in the garden, and most of them leave me rather cold and uninterested when I Google up who their were.

I am not all that fond of the "Captain Obvious is obvious" names either, like Pink Beauty, Pink Angel, Pink Cover, etc. There is zero imagination and poetry in that. Could as well be named a Pink Zombie (or Pink Zombina, to follow a generic femininity of the rose names). x)
REPLY
Reply #14 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Kim Rupert
Agreed, but naming a rose for a "celebrity" is a two edged sword. You'll have those who will buy it FOR the connection and many who won't buy it BECAUSE of it. Naming them for politicians, particularly here in the US is now certain death for a rose in most cases. Austin was very wise to choose Shakespeare to name some of his earlier roses for, but even those can have negative connotations. You'd have to be very careful to obtain permission (often with financial considerations involved) to use modern fictional character names. Not that you'd want to, but imagine what it might cost for permission to call a rose "Shrek"!

Ironically, it's the "zombie" type names you dislike which sell best, at least in this country. They have no negative associations with people or behaviors, are easily remembered, and possess enough of a positive and descriptive element to remain 'commercial' for decades without any special social or political knowledge of a particular time required to understand their names. Warren Millington, an Australian breeder, has a real knack for coming up with amusing, entertaining, descriptive, memorable names. You should check his out. I think you'd enjoy them.
REPLY
Reply #15 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Aurelija D.
Hehe Natural Blonde and Social Butterfly are definitely names to remember. :)

Regarding the naming though, the copyright issue is rather complicated. In general you cannot copyright the names (imagine a hassle if someone called their child Shrek, and if then someone wanted to call a rose after mister Shrek Smith). There are fine lines with it of course and the various institutional demands, and in general it is less stressful not to pick the obvious unique naming. However, the trick is to pick the less obvious cultural references, like for example a common phrase "At least we don't sparkle" is a direct reference to the movie saga Twilight, however you cannot pin a copyright to this kind of cultural reference, because it is too generic, although identifiable phrase. :)

Said that, my generation probably will be garden marketing viable only in a few decades, so I am rather curious how that will change the generic naming trends. :)
REPLY
Reply #16 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Kim Rupert
Those are funny! A few years ago, J&P introduced two climbers, High Society and Social Climber. Of course, I liked the second one a lot better, both for size, color, health and definitely the name! Ralph Moore named a striped seedling, Two Timer, and a mutual friend went absolutely ballistic as her ex husband was one!

In 1927 there was a HT named, with permission, for the industrialist, Henry Ford. Twenty-seven years later, his permission was once again asked to name a rose for him, which he refused. The creator actually found another gentleman named Henry Ford and obtained HIS permission to name the rose for him, though the public never knew it.
REPLY
Reply #17 of 29 posted 9 FEB 12 by Aurelija D.
lol, Social Climber sounds like a perfect name for a rose that tends to escape to the neighbors garden, you know, to socialize (and steal their sunlight). :)
REPLY
Reply #18 of 29 posted 10 FEB 12 by Kim Rupert
Actually, that's more High Society around here. It's a much larger climber. Social Climber is quite happy in a 20" pot on a friend's patio, growing happily into her lattice covering. In the open ground, it's usually less than 10' high, making it perfect for the common wrought iron fencing in newer communities. It's healthy, vigorous, fairly heavily flowering in a nice color and large flowers. Pretty much the perfect climber for smaller areas which can't handle a barn eater.
REPLY
Reply #19 of 29 posted 23 MAR 16 by Daniel Alm
The name Ketchup & Mustard doesn't bother me, but certain first ladies are not allowed in my garden because of their husbands' sins. I recently broke down and bought JACsegra, I feel terrible giving money to that institution's agenda, but I bought it end of the season discounted 50% off, so hopefully the money didn't get into their coffers. I refuse to call JACsegra by its exhibition name, totally creeps me out.
REPLY
Reply #20 of 29 posted 23 MAR 16 by Kim Rupert
I understand your sentiments, but is that one really any more offensive than any of these? JACbush, AROnance, JACorbet, JACtanre, JACurnam, JACgray. None of these have ever, nor will ever, grow in my garden.
REPLY
Reply #21 of 29 posted 23 MAR 16 by Daniel Alm
I find all of them equally offensive, but thankfully, the ones you listed are mediocre roses that are as odious as their namesakes. JACsegra is an excellent rose by all accounts and I like the color too. It's a shame I can't find Karen Blixen sold anywhere, because I'd rather have bought that as a lesser evil.
REPLY
Reply #22 of 29 posted 23 MAR 16 by Jay-Jay
Karen Blixen is a rather nice rose in my opinion, but doesn't perform that well.
Really good performers are Ingrid Bergman and Ambiente. Pumping out flowers all season long, in contrary to Karen Blixen. Parole is a very good-one too, with huge well formed flowers and as a bonus a very good scent!!!
REPLY
Reply #23 of 29 posted 24 MAR 16 by Raynyk
It's almost a bit embarrasing but I'm a sucker for the romantic sound of the old french roses, Souvenir de la Malmaison, Madame Legras de St. Germain, Ghislaine de Feligonde, Belle Sans Flatterie etc. I usually don't read up on the history of the names, or the persons and places behind it as it's mostly a letdown.
But if I would have two equal roses and one of them is named Pink Sweetie and the other Souvenir de la Reine de Senteur I always go for the later one. A bit silly maybe and I'm not even frenchspeaking.
REPLY
Reply #28 of 29 posted yesterday by OpineOnline
Spot on with the names Kim, I am so tired of the sappy valentines day cliche names. They need something edgier, we have way too many boring rose names.
REPLY
Reply #24 of 29 posted 7 APR 17 by a_carl76
I believe I found this rose being sold at a big box store here in Iowa in the bag with sawdust under the name of "Gold and Fire". Isn't it sad that I think this name is better. It isn't blooming yet but the description does seem to fit so I bought it to see if it really is. I also found that they are selling Tropical Lightening as Climbing Lightening. Unlike many other places, the bagged roses at this place are usually correctly labeled and I was willing to shell out the $3.99 to test it out.
REPLY
Reply #25 of 29 posted 8 APR 17 by Nastarana
There are three historic daffodils from the 1820s, I believe, named 'Butter and Eggs', 'Eggs and Bacon' and 'Codlins and Cream'. So, K&M may someday seem merely quaint--those silly early 21stC Americans you know--, and the name is at least a welcome change from the Romance Novel Soft Core Porn school of marketing. The rose seems very handsome, but I wonder how it might perform in a cold climate. Can anyone compare it with 'Kleopatra', which I think has similar coloring?
REPLY
Reply #26 of 29 posted 8 APR 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Dianthus 'Sops in Wine' is older still.
REPLY
Reply #27 of 29 posted yesterday by OpineOnline
I bought it BECAUSE of the name, I am so incredibly tired of the boring bourgeois hallmark lovey dovey names I could die lol......it seems like the rose industry is really missing an opportunity to make some of the roses more interesting just by naming this something better that goofy valentines day cliche names.
REPLY
Reply #29 of 29 posted yesterday by HubertG
I don't particularly like the name but that could be because the word ketchup really isn't in my vocabulary. In Australia this rose might have been more appropriately called 'Tomato Sauce & Mustard', but that just isn't catchy enough. Our mustard isn't normally that yellow either. ;-)
I don't like the modern practice of renaming roses in different countries in principle preferring the original name, unless it's terrible, but one advantage of that practice is if you don't like the name you can privately call it by one of the others. I dislike the name 'Dee-Lish' and thankfully that rose is sold in Australia as 'Forget Me Not' but I'd think it would have still done well here with the original name 'Line Renaud'. So of one silly name, one sappy name and the original name of someone who isn't well-known here, I'd still prefer the original, but at least I can choose.
I doubt many people in Australia knew that Peter Frankenfeld was a German comedian but that didn't stop it from become popular. A really good rose with a not-so-good name will still sell given time.
My personal peeve in rose naming is using an exclamation mark. Please stop that! It's just so silly!
REPLY
most recent 21 MAY SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 29 MAR 17 by Give me caffeine
Updated information:

Bonzer ripper, mate.

One of the few unmitigated success stories so far.
Cheerful, healthy, vigorous, well-covered in leaves.

Would definitely get another, or two or three.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 3 posted 29 MAR 17 by Andrew from Dolton
It also grows very well and healthily in climates that are cool and wet in summer, but only grows about 1 metre high. As good as any modern rose
REPLY
Reply #2 of 3 posted 7 FEB 22 by Margaret Furness
But it can ball, which is surprising (to me) for a little flower. I don't recall Narrow Water doing that, and would therefore consider it the better option.
REPLY
Reply #3 of 3 posted 21 MAY by Gdisaz10
The problem with this rose is that with so much rain the flowers all turn brown and unfortunately in my area May is the month of rain. It becomes a large rose.
REPLY
most recent 12 MAR SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 14 FEB 17 by drossb1986
Double Delight isn't a bad plant, and there are much better actual plants out there, however the coloring of DD just can't be beat in the realm of bi-colors. And, they smell amazing. In Houston it may get a touch of mildew in the spring, or a little blackspot. Nothing tragic.

Double Delight is a garden staple and it's easy to see why it has stuck around so long. Everyone stops to gawk at it, everyone has to put their nose in it, and everyone loves it. It's a bit like having an antique car...sure, there are more reliable and more comfortable newer cars available, but the style and cache of this "oldie but goodie" just can't be beat. IMO, they certainly don't make them like this anymore.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 9 posted 14 FEB 17 by Kim Rupert
Cherry Parfait here resembles Double Delight very much. It doesn't have any scent to compare, but it grows without the fungal issues and keep pushing new flowers when Double Delight stops. If you love the Double Delight coloring and don't have to have the scent, but want a stronger grower with healthier foliage, try Cherry Parfait.
REPLY
Reply #2 of 9 posted 15 FEB 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Where does this colour changing ability come from? Would it originally have been inherited form a China rose like 'Archduc Charles'?
REPLY
Reply #3 of 9 posted 15 FEB 17 by Kim Rupert
Quite possibly. Some China roses deepen with age, heat and UV. European (and American) types fade.
REPLY
Reply #4 of 9 posted 15 FEB 17 by jedmar
I believe an important element is 'Rosa foetida bicolor' which is found in the ancestry of many (if not all) red/yellow bicolor roses. This rose has a high concentration of anthocyanin pigments (for red) on the upper side of its petals and an equally high concentration of carotenoid pigments (for yellow) on the lower side. These pigments are then found in varying combinations in its descendants. A good example is 'Rumba', where the red components deepen with time. It is thought that with UV light, biosynthesis of anthocyanins progresses in the direction of higher frequencies of light absorption (darker colours), while biosynthesis of the carotenoids progresses towards lower frequencies of light absorption (orange to light yellow to almost colourless). The resulting effect is that the rose seems to become redder with time. "The Chemistry of Rose Pigments" (1991) by Swiss chemist Conrad Hans Eugster gives a detailed description of these pigments and processes as relating to roses.
REPLY
Reply #5 of 9 posted 15 FEB 17 by Andrew from Dolton
That's very interesting, thank you Kim and Jedmar.
REPLY
Reply #6 of 9 posted 15 FEB 17 by Kim Rupert
Thank you, Jedmar!
REPLY
Reply #7 of 9 posted 15 FEB 17 by Give me caffeine
Thanks for that. Interesting to know, and explains how the 'Charisma' in my garden works.
REPLY
Reply #8 of 9 posted 17 JUN 19 by kgs
I hear that a lot (about Cherry Parfait being similar to Double Delight) but after comparing both roses in their glory at the International Test Rose Garden in Portland, I see why people say that and yet there's something about Double Delight's coloring that is more complex than Cherry Parfait. Maybe it's that there is more yellow in it.
REPLY
Reply #9 of 9 posted 12 MAR by Matthew 0rwat
For me, Cherry Parfait has not personality or charm. The flowers and color change on Double Delight are much more elegant. It's strange how some roses have that indescribable something, while others of very similar coloring lack.
REPLY
most recent 4 FEB SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 22 OCT 17 by NikosR
Is Albertine self cleaning or does it hold on its wasted blooms for the rest of the year? This is important to know for rampant ramblers like this if one does not feel deadheading a large rambler under the heat is an enjoyable passtime.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 11 posted 22 OCT 17 by Patricia Routley
The 2011 reference says:
" Later the bloom dies most ungracefully and hangs on to its dead petals. Not in a spreading way, but losing all oomph in the petal and just collapsing to hang like a wet dishcloth in the middle of the pretty cluster."

Nevertheless, I would not be without it.
REPLY
Reply #6 of 11 posted 24 OCT 17 by Jay-Jay
On this part (Albertine is a triploid and sets no hips) of what You wrote in that article, I have to respectfully disagree as for setting hips... for it sets quite a few hips. See attached photo's I made today. Sorry for the less sharp photo's, for the light-conditions were bad and I didn't have a steady stand and or hand.
REPLY
Reply #7 of 11 posted 24 OCT 17 by Patricia Routley
That is so interesting Jay-Jay. You certainly have many hips there.
I've double checked where that information came from and it was G. D. Rowley, writing in the 1960 American Rose Annual, page 110 on Triploid Garden Roses. Among the other Wichuraiana roses he mentioned in the article were 'American Pillar', Dr. W. van Fleet', 'New Dawn', 'Albertine' and 'Emily Gray'.

I actually do have a photo of a miserable hip or two on 'American Pillar' and will add that to its file.
Perhaps it may be that a hip may not signify fertility? But I will be watching my 'Albertine' for hips this year.
Patricia
REPLY
Reply #8 of 11 posted 24 OCT 17 by Jay-Jay
Maybe it needs our weather?
On the other hand, this year was exceptionally sunny and dry over here.
I'll harvest the hips and sow some seeds.
REPLY
Reply #10 of 11 posted 26 OCT 17 by NikosR
Being triploid discourages seed fertility, not necessarily hip setting. Hip setting is very much affected by the existence of well developed reproductive organs on the flower.
REPLY
Reply #2 of 11 posted 23 OCT 17 by Jay-Jay
The dead flowers hang for a while, but after a while, when the hips swell, the petals disappear. But maybe that was due to a lot of rain and wind.
Will observe this next year.
REPLY
Reply #3 of 11 posted 23 OCT 17 by Andrew from Dolton
If you blast the bush with a leaf blower it will remove a lot of the dead flowers. This also works quite well for Camellias.
REPLY
Reply #4 of 11 posted 24 OCT 17 by Margaret Furness
Interesting thought. Someone advised me to deadhead a "ground-cover" rose with a golf-club.
REPLY
Reply #5 of 11 posted 24 OCT 17 by Jay-Jay
hole in one!
REPLY
Reply #9 of 11 posted 26 OCT 17 by Puns 'n' Roses
I can frequently be seen beating my monstrous Christine Helene with a long stick. I don't know what the neighbours think, and I don't actually care - by this I get rid of all the wilted petals without deadheading. And Christine Helene has hundreds of blooms. While hips form on the beaten part, she makes new trusses on new canes. So that's my low-tech recommendation, beat it with a stick. Love the golf club tip as well.
REPLY
Reply #11 of 11 posted 4 FEB by PepperReed
I would have never thought about this tip (and the leaf blower) as a way to deal with dead flower petals as an alternative to deadheading a massive prickly shrub. I've avoided getting some of the larger gorgeous roses, because of the deadheading task, so Thank you!
REPLY
© 2025 HelpMeFind.com