HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Patricia Routley
most recent yesterday HIDE POSTS
Initial post 2 days ago by Ambroise Paré
Hi, this rose is clearly not a Ht, as John Hook clearly stated. Wouldn it better to just call it non Enchanteress rose and make 2 different entries for the Ht which is probably extinct and the usurper s in commerce ??
Reply #1 of 4 posted yesterday by jedmar
The picture from "American Florist" looks not unlike the othe photos. I think we need more Information why the rose in commerce is not the original 'Enchantress' before we make a separate listing.
Reply #2 of 4 posted yesterday by Patricia Routley
Looking at John Cook’s roses, it seems he bred mostly hybrid teas. Antique Rose Emporium list it with their teas.
Reply #3 of 4 posted yesterday by Ambroise Paré
The shape is diffwrent, the ability to open the flowers which is rather scarce in ’ Enchanteress’ -, in the American florist, the necks are much longer typical of Hts. Some of the necks on the black and white picture are not weak but the one in commerce has always weak necks. And the leaves... the real E has almost only Ht and Hp in their pedigree... If already a black and white picture which can look like almost ’ any rose’ looks so different , and as Patricia has stated the breeder states it is an Ht and he bred only those, and modern sources states it is a Tea ....
Reply #4 of 4 posted yesterday by jedmar
As the parents are Hybrid Teas, it can only be an HT as you say. The source of the Commercial plant seems to be the Antique Rose Emporium. What do they say about the provenance?
most recent 3 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 3 days ago by nobaranobara
I think this rose is suitable for HT.
There is "Thalassa, HT, m; Dorieux, 1978" on page 585 of the Modern Roses Ⅺ.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 3 days ago by Patricia Routley
HT added. Many thanks nobaranobara
most recent 5 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 5 days ago by Robert Neil Rippetoe
A rose bred in 2012 cannot be offered by this nursery.

"California Nursery Co. (Historic Archive)"

Thanks, Robert
Reply #1 of 1 posted 5 days ago by Patricia Routley
Thanks Robert. Deleted.
most recent 5 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 8 NOV by CybeRose
I seem to be missing something. 'Belle de Bordeaux' is described as white with lilac reverse. 'Enfant trouvé' is yellow, like 'Augusta'.
Reply #1 of 2 posted 9 NOV by Patricia Routley
I am missing the same thing, but it seems Leon Chenault in 1898 was the first to call the pink, Enfant Trouve.

It seems the yellow Introduced by Cant was a foundling and I think we should add the double quotes to “Enfant Trouve”. It apparently was not ‘Aurora’, but may be
Elisa Sauvage’ 1838 or
‘Augusta’ syn Solfatare’ 1843

From my screen it seems the 1898, 1899, 1936 and 1994 references should be moved out and into Lartay’s pink ‘Belle de Bordeaux’ 1861 file. At this stage I have no idea what Bernède had to do with it.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 5 days ago by jedmar
The references for the pink rose are moved to 'Enfant Trouvé (syn. 'Belle de Bordeaux'). I believe Léon Chénault was in error in 1898 when citing this synonym.
Regarding Bernède, there is an article in Journal des Roses of 1883 mentioning that 'Belle de Bordeaux' was bred by him in 1852. Later we have 'Gloire de Bordeaux' by Lartay in 1861. Joseph Schwartz says in 1882 that BdB was rebaptised as GdB. Possibly. Lartay was apparently not a great breeder of Teas. We need more Information on both breeders to make a judgment.
© 2019