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Patricia Routley
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Initial post 7 JAN 16 by AquaEyes
I don't grow either, but I'm noticing some similarities between this rose and the rose currently being grown as 'Rembrandt' (not the original). Has anyone else made the comparisons?

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.5182.0&tab=1

:-)

~Christopher
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Reply #1 of 3 posted yesterday by Patricia Routley
Excellent suggestion Christopher. I will check my pedicel and receptacle today, but I am growing ‘Rembrandt’ in a different country.
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Reply #2 of 3 posted today by Patricia Routley
‘Rembrandt’ would work as far as the pedicel and smooth receptacle goes, but on this characteristic alone, so would ‘Paul Perras’ and another foundling of mine “Eileen Giblett’s No. 15” in the same bed.
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Reply #3 of 3 posted today by AquaEyes
Ah, but 'Plaul Perras' (aka what's being sold as 'Paul Ricault') has a different growth habit, and is once-blooming.

I guess I'll compare them myself by getting both for The Elmwood Cemetery. I didn't have that option back when I wrote that question, but now I do.

:-)

~Christopher
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Initial post 13 days ago by thebig-bear
Does anyone know if this rose was ever used as a rootstock in the UK? Are there any old gardens or collections known to have it?
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Reply #1 of 9 posted 13 days ago by Marlorena
I did have something on this rose written by Martyn Rix but lost on my computer for now... unable to trace on google either... I think it was written for the Historic Roses Group publication, from way back.... so sorry Steve I can't help... maybe Andrew can?..
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Reply #2 of 9 posted 13 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
Not sure if this is it but it's by Rix.

https://teddingtongardener.com/2014/04/06/bengal-beauty-a-first-class-rose-with-first-prize-for-the-first-flowers-of-the-year/
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Reply #3 of 9 posted 13 days ago by Marlorena
Thanks for checking Andrew but no, not that one, I've got that in my documents.. the one I'm thinking of was from 1999 or thereabouts, and I recall he specifically mentions R. indica Major... I made a point of keeping it and now I can't find it...
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Reply #4 of 9 posted 12 days ago by Patricia Routley
Martyn Rix wrote an article on China Roses in the R.N.R.S. Historic Roses Group Spring 1999 journal (No. 17), on page 8, but on a quick look through, I cannot see anything on R. indica major.
There are a few early English references in the HelpMeFind file.
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Reply #5 of 9 posted 12 days ago by Marlorena
Patricia, thanks for checking on this, and obviously I appear to have mixed something up.. I was 99 percent certain it was in that article which seems to be the one I was referring to... and it's also the one Andrew linked to above as well, - the 1999 article on China Roses written by Rix....I thought it was a different one but that can't be the case now... I feel sure it's a rose he would have talked about, and it's stuck in my memory somewhere...

thanks again...

I should add, it's a very beautiful rose looking at the photos... if that's rootstock I'd want it to sucker...
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Reply #6 of 9 posted 12 days ago by thebig-bear
Hi Marlorena,

I hope you do find the reference, it will be very interesting to read.

I really hope R. Indica Major is available somewhere in some form in this country, as it is such a beautiful looking rose - it reminds me so much of some of Redoute's best paintings. And I had never heard of it until a couple of days ago!

Thanks everyone for their thoughts on this, please keep em coming.....
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Reply #7 of 9 posted yesterday by Marlorena
I've found the links I was referring to above Steve, [if you're still checking in here], but I can't post links for some reason, it disappears off my screen when I try to post...

It wasn't by Rix after all... I found it rummaging around on my computer... it refers to a London publication from 1874 which in turn quotes a French journal detailing how the rose was used as understock, mainly in the south of France though... I'll try to post links another time... there are 3 altogether..
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Reply #8 of 9 posted yesterday by Marlorena
Well I've tried 4 times to post links but no good... sorry... let's see if this one works.. I've removed the https// bit..

babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044103104576;view=1up;seq=109


bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/Picture_view/rosefram.htm

bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/Picture_view/rosefram.htm
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Reply #9 of 9 posted today by thebig-bear
Hi Marlorena,

I am indeed still checking here! Great links! - thank you for sticking with it and finding them, they are very interesting.
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Initial post today by Patricia Routley
Copying today’s comments from Photos

Initial post yesterday by HMF supporting memberjedmar
What does the hip tell us? The stalk and the elongated shape of the hip says there is Damask involved, but only in the ancestors as the hip itself is smooth. A Hybrid China or Hybrid Perpetual therefore. Has anyone a picture of a hip of 'Ardoisée de Lyon' which seems to be contender for this mystery rose?

Reply #1 of 2 posted today by HMF supporting memberPatricia Routley
Photos from Mashamcl show that
‘Ardoisée de Lyon' has a pip (or pointel), and almost entire sepals.
“Benny Lopez” has a button eye, and leafy sepals.

For members in America:
I wonder if the description page for “Benny Lopez” should be slightly altered to:
Bloom... rounded outline. Button eye seems to be freed up in later life.
Pedicel .... prickly below the smooth, long and sloping receptacle.
Sepals.....can be long and leafy sometimes and are retained in old age.
Foliage... ? Jeri says shiny, Mashamcl says more matte (than Ardoisee...)
There seems to be a red tint to the new leaf’s deeply serrated edge.
Prickles ....many, almost straight, mostly horizontal.
Bush....does not sucker

Reply #2 of 2 posted today by HMF supporting memberNastarana
My bush does not sucker, but it lives in damp, heavy soil.

Thanks Nastarana. I note that Ingrid ‘s (Oregon) photo caption says “sucker from original plant”.
More information from more members is needed.
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Reply #1 of 1 posted today by jedmar
Yes, sepals are quite different - so clearly not 'Ardoisée de Lyon'.
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most recent today HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post yesterday by jedmar
What does the hip tell us? The stalk and the elongated shape of the hip says there is Damask involved, but only in the ancestors as the hip itself is smooth. A Hybrid China or Hybrid Perpetual therefore. Has anyone a picture of a hip of 'Ardoisée de Lyon' which seems to be contender for this mystery rose?
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Reply #1 of 3 posted yesterday by Patricia Routley
Photos from Mashamcl show that
‘Ardoisée de Lyon' has a pip (or pointel), and almost entire sepals.
“Benny Lopez” has a button eye, and leafy sepals.

For members in America:
I wonder if the description page for “Benny Lopez” should be slightly altered to:
Bloom... rounded outline. Button eye seems to be freed up in later life.
Pedicel .... prickly below the smooth, long and sloping receptacle.
Sepals.....can be long and leafy sometimes and are retained in old age.
Foliage... ? Jeri says shiny, Mashamcl says more matte (than Ardoisee...)
There seems to be a red tint to the new leaf’s deeply serrated edge.
Prickles ....many, almost straight, mostly horizontal.
Bush....does not sucker
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Reply #2 of 3 posted today by Nastarana
My bush does not sucker, but it lives in damp, heavy soil.
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Reply #3 of 3 posted today by Patricia Routley
I have responded further in the rose’s Members Comments, rather than in this Photo’s Comments.
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