HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 21 NOV 19 SHOW ALL
Initial post 24 AUG 07 by DonaldQuRoses
I finally called someone to ask about a rose that is blooming non-stop that I pass on my way to work everyday. I also stopped to sniff it and it had a pretty strong scent.

I was told it was a Valentine. Can that be right? I didn't think Valentine had a scent.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 21 NOV 19 by odinthor
Here we are, a couple of decades after your question: I have a 'Valentine', and you are right: It is devoid of scent.
most recent 4 OCT 19 SHOW ALL
Initial post 16 APR 09 by maele
Love, love, love it! So far it's doing well in it's first southern california spring that's been a little colder than usual. Still waiting to see what it does in the HOT summer ahead, but will post an update. Blooms like crazy, and no blooms fell off in yesterday's high winds. Beautiful ruffled edges, worth it for that feature alone. Also, no signs of disease. Colors are muted but pretty, open up russettish, fade to salmon pinkish/lavender when spent.
Reply #1 of 21 posted 10 MAY 09 by Jeff Britt
This is a nice, healthy rose that blooms freely and well. I just can't stand the color. It must be a personal quirk, but the color is very unsettled, harsh and doesn't combine well with other colors in the garden.
Reply #2 of 21 posted 10 MAY 09 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Jeff, you got further than I did. I couldn't bring myself to purchase CdM.
Reply #3 of 21 posted 11 MAY 09 by Don H
There is a bed of Cinco de Mayo at Elizabeth Park in Hartford. I have to say that the photos at HMF don't really capture its appearance in a bed, or even the flowers - the blooms have much more yellow in them here. It's a hugely floriferous plant, as well.

That said, the foliage and especially the canes detract from it, being very rustic looking and quite prickly. It is not high on my list as a breeder but I do think it would be worth exploring and may give it some attention this year as a pollen parent. I have a couple of OP seedlings going of it as well.
Reply #4 of 21 posted 12 MAY 09 by Jeff Britt
I didn't buy CDM to put in my garden. NO way would the color work anywhere. I bought three plants for a neighbor and she's thrilled with them. She likes anything bright and gaudy, and in her garden it seems to look O.K. CDM does flower like a trooper, though the growth is a bit uneven -- some short and some tall canes, so you don't get a very rounded bush without some heavy-handed pruning.
Reply #6 of 21 posted 26 MAY 09 by Jeff Britt
You know, I knew that the color of CDM reminded me of something, and yesterday the penny dropped. The color reminds me of when someone's mother used to mix grape Kool-Aid with Hawaiian Punch and serve it at a kids party. It tasted strange, too!
Reply #7 of 21 posted 28 MAY 09 by HMF Admin
lol !
Reply #5 of 21 posted 15 MAY 09 by Linette
We purchased the Cinco de Mayo and what a disappointment. It's a healthy plant and blooms frequently, however the color is awful and not as pictured at all. I thought the more it bloomed and became established, that the color would be truer to the picture but I think it has settled on a Coral with some blooms containing yellow streaks. I purchased this rose specifically for a corner that had been without for years (waiting on the right one) and I thought I had found the one with Cinco de Mayo. The blooms do not last long and the only positive I can find is the foliage color. This is one rose that I will be removing once I find a better one to add. I have never felt this way about a plant and much more a rose. I learn to live with the sometimes "not as pictured" roses but this rose is so different in color, it would almost be easier to believe they packaged the wrong plant in error. I only see the purple hues when the flower has died (so dead the petals are dry).
Reply #21 of 21 posted 4 OCT 19 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Thank you for the info. that blooms don't last long.
Reply #8 of 21 posted 2 JUN 09 by DonaldQuRoses
Wow I'm shocked with everyone disliking the color. I find it to be too beautiful for words! There is no way to photograph it and capture its nuances and color variations. I guess to each his own. I do wonder though if location makes a difference. Some roses look like completely different roses if viewed across the states and globe. I've mixed mine with a lavender pink rose and two very deep red roses. The combo is divine!
Reply #9 of 21 posted 4 JUN 09 by maele
The color does change a LOT, but I find the foliage really pretty. Even though it does match absolutely nothing, I am planning to put it with lavender perennials, a red japanese maple that is a dark maroon, and maybe small red roses. For me the second bloom cycle had a few dark orange flowers, but my friend's plant did turn very gaudy as some of you mentioned. Hers is from Star and mine is from Weeks, but I don't know if it makes a difference.
Now mine seems to have settled into a beautiful muted russet color, and it blooms all the time. I agree with everyone that this is a strange looking plant, but I still like it. One cool thing is that the color can pull together other random colors in a vase of cut roses, since it has a little bit of everything.
Reply #10 of 21 posted 5 JUN 09 by DonaldQuRoses
I can see 'Distant Drums' as a good companion rose! Just thought of this combo!
Reply #11 of 21 posted 5 JUN 09 by Jeff Britt
Reply #12 of 21 posted 5 JUN 09 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
"Yikes", lol, I had the same reaction!
Reply #18 of 21 posted 25 NOV 09 by Michael Garhart
Robert, you have no taste :P

I actually like this rose. It has a nice bushy habit. The color is very Fall-like here in Oregon. It is very rustic. It actually has a strong Pacific NW feel to it. My main complaint of it is that I feel it should be stronger smelling for what it is. I wish Distant Drums had a more natural bush like CdM does, and I wish CdM had a more memorable scent like DD does, lol.

At any rate, I would recommend this rose for rounding out any angular corners in the garden --especially those corners that need a smooth, dark touch to it -- not something punctual or attention seeking.
Reply #19 of 21 posted 25 NOV 09 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Vive la difference! ;-)
Reply #20 of 21 posted 25 NOV 09 by Michael Garhart
Pffft :P
Reply #13 of 21 posted 5 JUN 09 by DonaldQuRoses
C'mon guys! Are ya color blind? ;) I just thought with Distant Drums being peach pink and purple it would echo a paler version of Cinco de Mayo. Now stop making fun of my color sense - I do have a Master of Fine Arts in Painting after all - whadyo got? ;)
Reply #14 of 21 posted 5 JUN 09 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Degrees in horticulture. ;-)
Reply #15 of 21 posted 5 JUN 09 by DonaldQuRoses
No wonder!!! ;()
Reply #16 of 21 posted 6 JUN 09 by Margaret Furness
Now add Victoriana, and you'll have the full catastrophe.
(My degree is in radiology - black & white stuff.)
Reply #17 of 21 posted 7 JUN 09 by Jeff Britt
Degree in horticulture and strong opinions. That's all. And in NO way do I mean to demean anyone's color sense. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I believe that completely. CDM has merits that I cannot appreciate, but you do. Thank God we're not all alike!
most recent 8 APR 17 SHOW ALL
Initial post 7 FEB 12 by DonaldQuRoses
I refuse to buy a rose named Ketchup and Mustard! Please please please - roses are elegant and should be named that way. It looks like a beautiful rose, but with that name all I can see is a hot dog --- and I'm a VEGETARIAN! ;)
Reply #1 of 26 posted 7 FEB 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
But, might not those condiments also be appropriate for a veggie burger? As for "elegance" in rose names, you're forgetting ones such as "Happy Butt" , "Sweet Revenge" and "Crazy Dottie". Nothing "elegant" about those and there are many, many more.
Reply #2 of 26 posted 7 FEB 12 by DonaldQuRoses
Many many wrongs don't make a right! ;)
Reply #3 of 26 posted 7 FEB 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
"Tofu" included! LOL!
Reply #4 of 26 posted 8 FEB 12 by Aurelija D.
That's what happens, when the rose naming is done before the lunch. :)

I am with DonaldQuRoses on this one though, it is a very no-awe inspiring rose name.
Reply #5 of 26 posted 8 FEB 12 by Jay-Jay
Piccalilly....oh I'm sorry.... Piccadilly is in the parentage too!
(and Peace off course!)
Reply #6 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Seil
I don't let the names bother me too much any more. If the rose is lovely I don't really care what the breeder decided to name it. There are too many really gorgeous roses that are named after politicians and so called "stars" that, except for their names, I want. So I just buy what I like and to heck with the names. Unless you exhibit and need to have the correct "Approved Exhibition Name" (AEN) if you find a rose you really love with a name you hate just buy the rose and pick your own name for it! Whose gonna know or care?
Reply #7 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
I've honestly bought many over the years simply due to the name. At the "entrance" to my old desert garden, as it bordered a private golf course in a planned community, I planted Buck's "Hi Neighbor" as the greeting to the garden, though I honestly don't like the rose. I planted Hiroshima's Children next to Pearl Harbor. All of the "booze" inspired were planted together in "the bar". Tequilla Sunrise, Champagne Cocktail, Courvoisier and a number of others named for either alcohol or drinks were "tended" there.

I grew many which were named for notable, strong, intelligent women, Marian Anderson,
Madame Chiang Kai-shek and others, held their court together. Though I've never grown it, The Wife of Bath is probably one I should as Bath's Wife was a formidable woman for her time!

The names don't have to be elegant to have meaning. Personally, I think the British have the best idea from a marketing standpoint. Name them for special occasions, making them the perfect gift for each one. I would add support for "catchy" names such as Eyes for You as it's actually lyrical, "I only have eyes, for you..." I think women's names are a sure bet to make them marketable, too. How many times have you at least been tempted to buy a rose (or other plant) to honor someone because it was their name? Believe me, it can be a very emotional moment! I planted a fuchsia in a friend's garden I'd found, which bore her name. She called to tell me how much she loved it. I asked if she'd red the tag. She returned, exclaiming, "it's MY name!" The next time I saw them, her husband came up to me, wrapped his arm around my shoulder, looked me in the eye and said, "Ya made my girl cry!" I apologized and asked if that was a good thing. He winked and said, "Thanks!" I thought it very sweet after forty years of marriage.

Why must only minis get the catchy, "cutsie" names? At least Ketchup and Mustard FITS the coloring of the rose and doesn't gag me like names such as "Angel Face". Argh!
Reply #8 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Seil
Oh, I too have bought my share strictly because of the name. At one time I had one for each member of my family except my brother Alan. He was very disappointed because we just couldn't find any rose named Alan.

And I confess I like the cutsie names! I bought Tattooed Lady because the name just tickled me and I don't even have a tattoo. Once I got the rose I found the name really does fit the look of the rose too. I love the name "White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth" and wish I could grow it here. "Tipsy Imperial Concubine" Is another great one.

For my money I hope breeders don't all decide to get all serious and only use "elegant" names. I hope they continue to come up with fun and sometimes intriguing names. My brother dubbed one of my seedlings out of What a Peach, "Son of a Peach" and I like it, lol!
Reply #9 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
Tom Carruth told the story of a peach colored moss mini he created some years ago. The naming was a collaborative effort in the office. One of the marketing people suggested the name they went with, Peach Fuzz, and then from then on, he checked to see how "his rose" was doing. I agree with you about cute names. I've been accused of using "quirky" names. Perhaps. I'm still looking for just the right seedling to name, "Tequilla Mockingbird"!
Reply #10 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Seil
Lol, I love it, Kim! I think it would need to be yellow and orange stripes myself.

I'll bet that naming that rose Peach Fuzz gave that worker the feeling he had a vested interest in the rose so he wanted to keep track of it.
Reply #11 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
I'm sure of it. Can you imagine how exciting it was for him to go home and tell his family HE named their new rose, then share such a clever name with them?

I love the stories behind them such as the ones for Just Joey and Hi. They're cute and real. I really must retaliate for Angel Face and name one "Kissie Face"!
Reply #12 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Jay-Jay
We grow Warm Wishes at our front door; not for the name, (that's a bonus) but for the colour.
But my wifes taste altered and this autumn we'll plant there brighter and smaller roses: Tintinara.
We'll keep the W.W. and plant them elsewhere in the garden.
Reply #13 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Aurelija D.
Hm I normally do not buy a rose because of the name, although some are a nice bonus (like Jude the Obscure, Distant Drums, A Whiter Shade of Pale or Alchemist).

I wish there was more naming based on a literature/movie characters than the real people. To give a well know example, a name Princess Leia would say more than a name Carrie Fisher, an actress who played her in the SW saga, or Arwen Evenstar would say more than Liv Tyler, who played her in LoTR.

I have a fair share of the obligatory real "ladies" in the garden, and most of them leave me rather cold and uninterested when I Google up who their were.

I am not all that fond of the "Captain Obvious is obvious" names either, like Pink Beauty, Pink Angel, Pink Cover, etc. There is zero imagination and poetry in that. Could as well be named a Pink Zombie (or Pink Zombina, to follow a generic femininity of the rose names). x)
Reply #14 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
Agreed, but naming a rose for a "celebrity" is a two edged sword. You'll have those who will buy it FOR the connection and many who won't buy it BECAUSE of it. Naming them for politicians, particularly here in the US is now certain death for a rose in most cases. Austin was very wise to choose Shakespeare to name some of his earlier roses for, but even those can have negative connotations. You'd have to be very careful to obtain permission (often with financial considerations involved) to use modern fictional character names. Not that you'd want to, but imagine what it might cost for permission to call a rose "Shrek"!

Ironically, it's the "zombie" type names you dislike which sell best, at least in this country. They have no negative associations with people or behaviors, are easily remembered, and possess enough of a positive and descriptive element to remain 'commercial' for decades without any special social or political knowledge of a particular time required to understand their names. Warren Millington, an Australian breeder, has a real knack for coming up with amusing, entertaining, descriptive, memorable names. You should check his out. I think you'd enjoy them.
Reply #15 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Aurelija D.
Hehe Natural Blonde and Social Butterfly are definitely names to remember. :)

Regarding the naming though, the copyright issue is rather complicated. In general you cannot copyright the names (imagine a hassle if someone called their child Shrek, and if then someone wanted to call a rose after mister Shrek Smith). There are fine lines with it of course and the various institutional demands, and in general it is less stressful not to pick the obvious unique naming. However, the trick is to pick the less obvious cultural references, like for example a common phrase "At least we don't sparkle" is a direct reference to the movie saga Twilight, however you cannot pin a copyright to this kind of cultural reference, because it is too generic, although identifiable phrase. :)

Said that, my generation probably will be garden marketing viable only in a few decades, so I am rather curious how that will change the generic naming trends. :)
Reply #16 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
Those are funny! A few years ago, J&P introduced two climbers, High Society and Social Climber. Of course, I liked the second one a lot better, both for size, color, health and definitely the name! Ralph Moore named a striped seedling, Two Timer, and a mutual friend went absolutely ballistic as her ex husband was one!

In 1927 there was a HT named, with permission, for the industrialist, Henry Ford. Twenty-seven years later, his permission was once again asked to name a rose for him, which he refused. The creator actually found another gentleman named Henry Ford and obtained HIS permission to name the rose for him, though the public never knew it.
Reply #17 of 26 posted 9 FEB 12 by Aurelija D.
lol, Social Climber sounds like a perfect name for a rose that tends to escape to the neighbors garden, you know, to socialize (and steal their sunlight). :)
Reply #18 of 26 posted 10 FEB 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
Actually, that's more High Society around here. It's a much larger climber. Social Climber is quite happy in a 20" pot on a friend's patio, growing happily into her lattice covering. In the open ground, it's usually less than 10' high, making it perfect for the common wrought iron fencing in newer communities. It's healthy, vigorous, fairly heavily flowering in a nice color and large flowers. Pretty much the perfect climber for smaller areas which can't handle a barn eater.
Reply #19 of 26 posted 23 MAR 16 by Daniel Alm
The name Ketchup & Mustard doesn't bother me, but certain first ladies are not allowed in my garden because of their husbands' sins. I recently broke down and bought JACsegra, I feel terrible giving money to that institution's agenda, but I bought it end of the season discounted 50% off, so hopefully the money didn't get into their coffers. I refuse to call JACsegra by its exhibition name, totally creeps me out.
Reply #20 of 26 posted 23 MAR 16 by Rupert, Kim L.
I understand your sentiments, but is that one really any more offensive than any of these? JACbush, AROnance, JACorbet, JACtanre, JACurnam, JACgray. None of these have ever, nor will ever, grow in my garden.
Reply #21 of 26 posted 23 MAR 16 by Daniel Alm
I find all of them equally offensive, but thankfully, the ones you listed are mediocre roses that are as odious as their namesakes. JACsegra is an excellent rose by all accounts and I like the color too. It's a shame I can't find Karen Blixen sold anywhere, because I'd rather have bought that as a lesser evil.
Reply #22 of 26 posted 23 MAR 16 by Jay-Jay
Karen Blixen is a rather nice rose in my opinion, but doesn't perform that well.
Really good performers are Ingrid Bergman and Ambiente. Pumping out flowers all season long, in contrary to Karen Blixen. Parole is a very good-one too, with huge well formed flowers and as a bonus a very good scent!!!
Reply #23 of 26 posted 24 MAR 16 by Raynyk
It's almost a bit embarrasing but I'm a sucker for the romantic sound of the old french roses, Souvenir de la Malmaison, Madame Legras de St. Germain, Ghislaine de Feligonde, Belle Sans Flatterie etc. I usually don't read up on the history of the names, or the persons and places behind it as it's mostly a letdown.
But if I would have two equal roses and one of them is named Pink Sweetie and the other Souvenir de la Reine de Senteur I always go for the later one. A bit silly maybe and I'm not even frenchspeaking.
Reply #24 of 26 posted 7 APR 17 by a_carl76
I believe I found this rose being sold at a big box store here in Iowa in the bag with sawdust under the name of "Gold and Fire". Isn't it sad that I think this name is better. It isn't blooming yet but the description does seem to fit so I bought it to see if it really is. I also found that they are selling Tropical Lightening as Climbing Lightening. Unlike many other places, the bagged roses at this place are usually correctly labeled and I was willing to shell out the $3.99 to test it out.
Reply #25 of 26 posted 8 APR 17 by Nastarana
There are three historic daffodils from the 1820s, I believe, named 'Butter and Eggs', 'Eggs and Bacon' and 'Codlins and Cream'. So, K&M may someday seem merely quaint--those silly early 21stC Americans you know--, and the name is at least a welcome change from the Romance Novel Soft Core Porn school of marketing. The rose seems very handsome, but I wonder how it might perform in a cold climate. Can anyone compare it with 'Kleopatra', which I think has similar coloring?
Reply #26 of 26 posted 8 APR 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Dianthus 'Sops in Wine' is older still.
most recent 7 JUN 12 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 6 JUN 12 by DonaldQuRoses
I'm getting a box that says to click my member name to see unread messages. When I scan over my name it doesn't give me a clickable link. Thanks
Reply #1 of 1 posted 7 JUN 12 by HMF Admin
Click the orange MY HMF ACCOUNT button.
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