HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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GeorgeZ 
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6 AUG 06 by
Anonymous-797
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Are there other antique climbing/rambling roses that are thornless? We have Zephirine Drouhin.
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#1 of 23 posted
8 AUG 06 by
William
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The only antique climber that even comes close that I am aware of is Mermaid. It has Sharp thorns but very few.
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#6 of 23 posted
11 AUG 06 by
Anonymous-105318
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Our Mermaid was full of thorns.
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I've just bought a rambler called Ghislaine de Feligonde (yellow fading to white) which is nearly thornless. It was bred in 1916.
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Mermaid can, in NO way, be considered "lightly prickled"! They are LARGE, hooked and VERY SHARP! It's a wonderful rose and I adore it, but to even suggest it should be considered similar to a rose such as Zephirine is a great dis service to anyone making use of the misinformation. Mermaid can easily be used as living barbed wire. My place of employment has it enveloping wrought iron fencing. No one in their right mind would EVER attempt to breach that barrier! I've tried shredding Mermaid canes in a ten horse power shredder, years ago when I was much less careful than I've become with time. That was a MISTAKE! They would not shred, but began whipping around like heavily spiked tenticals of a giant squid, hooking me, shredding my clothes and literally attempting to pull me into the shredder! Mermaid is a great rose, but definitely one I would NEVER suggest growing anywhere it can "bite" anyone. Kim Rupert
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#4 of 23 posted
9 AUG 06 by
William
Kim, My only intention was to give an alternate since I know of no other antique climber this is completely thornless. I do realize that it has SHARP thorns but in my encounters it hasn't had that many. William |
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#5 of 23 posted
10 AUG 06 by
Anonymous-97434
There are a few of the Boursault Roses still around, and they are mostly thornless. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=813 Their main drawback is they are once blooming. |
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Kim is correct! 'WARE 'Mermaid'!!! It is HEAVILY covered with vicious thorns.Thornless Climbing OGR's??? I'm not aware of any others -- but you CAN grow 'Reine des Violettes' as a low climber -- at least you can in warm climates. And it is virtually thornless.Be careful, however! MANY incorrect roses are sold under the name 'Reine des Violettes!!! This is a rose which I would ONLY purchase from a legitimate specialist grower. I have seen too many "wrong-uns." Jeri JenningsCoastal Ventura County, Southern California
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#8 of 23 posted
28 SEP 06 by
Unregistered Guest
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There is a rose called Martha which is a sport of Zepherine D (I think) that I bought about a year or two ago from Ashdown Roses. It hasn't bloomed as well for me as Zepherine does but I am still hopeful. It is nearly thornless and has grown well--I have it interwoven on a fence. It's a lighter pink with a light fragrance. Sorry I don't have a photo to send you.
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And there is another sport of Zephirine called Kathleen Harrop which is a lighter pink than Martha. Both are available from Vintage Gardens and there are pictures.
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I should mention here that Zephirine Drouhan can have powdery mildew problems in areas where that is a problem. Of course, there are many areas where mildew isn't a big deal -- it's a huge issue where I live.
Jeri Jennings
Coastal Couthern California
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#15 of 23 posted
16 MAR 07 by
William
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I talked with a microbiologist about black spot and she told me to try coarse ground corn meal. She said by accident she found it to kill the fungus in the ground. Sprinkle liberally as it will not harm the roses. If this works it will indeed be a find for natural remedies.
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#11 of 23 posted
28 SEP 06 by
Lulu
Try Climbing Pinkie or Climbing China Doll. These are not heritage roses but are both virtually thornless polyanther type climbers which can be bent easily so make excellent climbers for arbors, gates and verandah posts where prickles are dangerous. Both are pink and very floriferous blooming from spring till late autumn {fall}. I particularly love China Doll and it will strike quite readily if you want more. Lulu |
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I have a Madame Plantier (introduced in 1835). The blooms are white with a tiny green eye at the middle of the center button & have heavenly old-rose fragrance. She is nearly thornless, extremely cold-hardy/drough tolerant & disease-free. I have seen her growing as a graceful, bowing mound, but mine is growing up on a trellis and has canes approx. 12' long. She blooms once, in mid-May here in southern Missouri. See Claire Martin's book 100 Old Roses for the American Garden, p.192-193 for picture & history.
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I've seen Mme. Plantier used as a low climber along a picket fence, in a garden in an old Gold Rush town. This wasn't a deserted garden, but a lovely and well-tended one, and I really wanted to ask the lady there about her roses. She was working in her garden when we passed, and must be the only person I've ever met who did not respond favorably to: "Your roses are lovely." :-(
Jeri
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#23 of 23 posted
20 APR 16 by
GeorgeZ
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I've got a Mme. Plantier in my garden for the taking. Any takers?
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I thought of another rose that might suit your needs....along with my Madame Plantier, I have growing a Cardinal de Richelieu (introduced 1840)...see Claire Martin's 100 Old Garden Roses for the American Garden, p.106-107. Martin's picture doesn't do the color justice...mine is the most intense deep grape-purple imaginable! The fragrance is of strong, old rose attar. Canes are nearly thornless. Again, mine is growing approx. 12' tall on a trellis--along with the white Mdm. Plantier. Together, they are breath-taking!
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Again, the lovely Cardinal de Richelieu is a rose that needs some chill hours. I wish I could grow it in my part of coastal Southern California, but I cannot. :-(
Jeri Jennings
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#17 of 23 posted
16 MAR 07 by
jedmar
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Climbers which are thornless or with few thorns are mostly Multifloras or Noisettes, e.g. Aimée Vibert, Crépuscule, Donau, Emerick-Rose, Euphrosyne, Fortune's Double Yellow, Ghislaine de Feligonde, Lamarque, Madeleine Seltzer, Maria Lisa, Mme Alfred Carriere, Regierungsrat Rottenberger, Tausendschön, Veilchenblau
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Lamarque's prickles may be widely spaced, but they are curved and lethal. Of the noisettes, Reve d'Or would be a better choice-- tiny prickles, and very few. Fortune's Double Yellow is right up there with Mermaid-- serious thorns.
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#18 of 23 posted
7 APR 07 by
Unregistered Guest
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If your rose labelled Fortune's Double yellow is thornless, it's something else. FDY is a hooker.
Nice list though; some of those I can't get hold of, and would love to grow.
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#20 of 23 posted
8 APR 07 by
jedmar
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Margaret, you are right. FDY has curved prickles. What I probably meant, but did not write, was Yellow Banksiae, which is thornless.
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A hooker is a rose that leaps out and acosts passers-by...
I'm told that Claire Jacquier is sometimes sold as Fortune's Double Yellow, but I haven't grown CJ and don't know whether it is prickly.
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Ralph Moore's 1954 'Renae' is an excellent thornless climbing rose. Healthy but not overly rampant. Very recurrent. Fragrant. The blooms are pink, aging to a lighter colour.
The rose sold [in Australia] as "Beales Mons. Tillier" has many thornless stems. If you are in a mild climate this makes a beautiful, fragrant climber.
The rose sold as "Adam" also has very few prickles.
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My Baltimore Belle has both rust and an odd kind of yellowing of the leaves. Various amounts of nutrients have not helped. No other rose near her suffers like this. Do others have difficulties with her?
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George...
There are many things that cause the problems you've mentioned in your post. Since you mention that other roses nearby do not have the same problems, there are a couple of things to check, starting with drainage and soil. Both can vary very quickly within a few feet.
Next, did you know that you can actually stress a rose to where it is more disease prone by how you prune the rose ? You might want to read the article about 'Iceberg' written by Kim Rupert in the HMF Ezine archives. Near the bottom of the article, he writes about how a rose is pruned can impact the health of the plant. (Click EZINE on the navigation bar at the left;' click ARTICLES BY AUTHOR, and click the title "Poor Old Iceberg" to find the article.)
Altho' he is writing about 'Iceberg', in my experience, this is true for other roses, too, in my climate.
Smiles,
Lyn
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gotta love that volcanic soil. what a rich color!
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No volcanic soil here. :-)
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#2 of 2 posted
9 JUN 12 by
GeorgeZ
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lovely color - congratulations!
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so what gives? Are Reine des Violettes and Mme. Isaac Pereire sold as the same rose? Mine is pale almost lavender and does not perform without constant attention and generous amounts of nutrients - with special attention to potash? Which is it?
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Neither?
The photos on hmf show that the colours of R des V are very hard to convey with digital cameras, and at least two roses are sold under this name (I'm told there has been considerable discussion of this in Germany).
If your rose is pale, it's not what I grow as R des V, nor is it Mme Isaac, who is, shall we say, unsubtle.
The references re prickles for R des V may help you.
Mme Isaac sets lots of red hips; R des V rarely sets any in my garden.
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#2 of 6 posted
5 JUN 12 by
Seil
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I agree with Margaret,. My RdV has deep smoky lavender blooms about 2 inches in size that do not last long, is virtually thornless and does not set hips readily. As an amature breeder I've tried many times with no luck. I do not have MIP but do have several offspring from her hips and they are much pinker and thornier.
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#3 of 6 posted
6 JUN 12 by
GeorgeZ
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I was able to trace the invoice of where I bought the rose. It was sold as RdV to me by Vintage Roses and from their book on the origin of their plants, it came to them from Pickering. It is practically thornless, the blooms hide or reveal themselves right before opening - as Graham Stuart Thomas wrote about. The foliage is as he says, "leaden". Pale green without an ounce of character.The early blooms are always a mess. I have yet to get rebloom in the fall.
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#4 of 6 posted
6 JUN 12 by
Seil
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It does look like RdV. I have to agree that the blooms can look kind of messy sometimes and they do not last for long. Don't try to cut them either because they shatter almost immediatly once they're off the bush. And the leaves are a very dull lighter green.
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#5 of 6 posted
6 JUN 12 by
jedmar
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Unfortunately there are many roses in commerce being sold as RdV. More unfortunately, even the earliest references are conflicting. See the illustration from 1860 I posted end of 2008: dark slate colour, with prickles. The next reference from Germany in 1861: Dark violet with reddish centre, without prickles.
All lighter coloured versions are incorrect and may be throwbacks to 'Pope Pius IX'.
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Your first photo looks reasonably like my plant, but I don't think I've seen mine looking like your second photo.
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