HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent today SHOW ALL
Initial post 11 FEB 14 by goncmg
In the old ARS annual "Proof of Pudding" back from when this one was new, it is mentioned in passing that at release in 1961 or 1962 this one cost $20 or $25, had to be special ordered or something to that effect (that would be like a rose costing close to $200 today!)....the general sentiment was that the variety did not live up to its marketing, was not very special....does anyone out there have any details on this? How did a $20 rose via special order (?) come to be on the market 50 years ago? Seems it was marketed at exhibitors??
Reply #1 of 4 posted 12 FEB 14 by Patricia Routley
Cheek probably. The 1965 references says "Loves mildew, is fragrant and not worth $10.00"
And those orange photos from India don't seem very phlox pink to me.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 13 FEB 14 by goncmg
Patricia! Hope all is well with you and you are enjoying a lovely summer down under. Here in Ohio, USA we have had one of the meanest, cruelest, hardest winters in decades. Got to -15 with no snow and high winds, etc. This is why mine sleep in the garage and even then the larger ones seemed to freeze solid (which makes me nervous but I know is not usually lethal) THAT being said, lol, have you noticed that rather often on here it is the old "Eastern Block" and India that posts these pics that just look really "off?" Probably innocently, too, suspect it may just have to do with easy marketing like our waxed body bag discounts here in the US...???
Reply #3 of 4 posted 17 FEB 14 by Dianne's Southwest Idaho Rose Garden
Chris, I wondered if the color variance in the photos from India were perhaps a camera or lighting error, since even the foliage doesn't look like a natural green. The form of the bloom looks quite similar, don't you think?

My rose was new last year and didn't bloom, but perhaps this spring I'll have an opinion on whether this rose has any qualities making it unique or especially worth growing.
Reply #4 of 4 posted today by Just-one-more-rose
And, what did you decide, if I may ask? I'm especially interested to hear about the fragrance. Thank you
most recent 5 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 14 OCT 12 by goncmg
If someone who has never EVER grown roses was to come to me and ask what should they try my answer would be TIFFANY. It, unlike Queen Elizabeth which is also so easy to grow, it LOOKS like what people WANT a rose to look like: big bloom generally on a single stem, fragrant, warm pink lit gold....indestructable....hardy.............for the more saged growers I think it doesn't really "stand out" is one of those reliable "work horses" definately worth a place in the line-up but almost BECAUSE it lacks any sort of notable faults or ticks and is basically PINK it sort of gets a little forgotten about but really should be more lauded by us old rose souls..........60 years old and it is available own root, budded, mail order, upscale garden center, grocery store, probably in a fast food drive thru as well (!).........and always has been...............and always should IS what people THINK of when they think ROSE..........surprisingly it has been a parent to more notable varieties than one would think, too....some pass on the good more than others and Tiffany is one of those....I am a grower who slightly favors the abstreuse and forgets to pay attention to/love the more obvious who perform so well, are so strong, and who were introduced mid-century (my specialty/interest) and are just so SOLID.........this is a GREAT rose...........

For those who are "saged": compare Tiffany to Helen Traubel!!!! Both were AARS early 50's but 60 years ahead there is just no comparison. There wasn't 10 years later in my opinion. Traubel was still highly rated into the 70's but weak necks, no scent, can ball, color is a little mutable, and the plant just sprawls and sprawls messily.............when I think Tiffany seems "bland" I remind myself to look beyond the color and look at the plant, smell the bloom, and so on.............
Reply #1 of 7 posted 14 JAN 13 by Dianne's Southwest Idaho Rose Garden
I truly appreciate your comment, and completely agree. You led me to realize that I haven't paid due attention to my Tiffany, for just the reasons you gave. Now I can hardly wait for May/June so I can see what I've been missing!
Reply #2 of 7 posted 2 FEB 14 by Blue Zinnia
Bravo! (or brava, as the case may be.) This is a great case in point for those of us, mostly older folks, who believe that no rose is ever "superseded" or "replaced" by something more modern. This is a great rose, regardless of anything that came before or after; it's simply itself, and very beautiful (ladies, try one of the vase-shaped buds on the lapel of a pale yellow or green summer jacket!!) The fragrance is also something special, and it carries like crazy. Add easy cultivation to that, and you've got a winner, in this or any other decade.
Reply #3 of 7 posted 6 APR 14 by Matt's Northwest Florida Garden
Belinda's Dream, one of the most Blackspot resistant "Large Flowered" roses I grow, came from Tiffany. In the super humid climate of Northwest Florida, this one receives no fungicide spray except one of Lime-Sulfur during the dormant season. Believe me, this is the mecca for Blackspot.
Reply #4 of 7 posted 8 APR by drossb1986
You give a spot-on review. For me, I almost ignore it as much as I ignore it's child, Belinda's Dream. There's just nothing that really bowls you over about it...except maybe for the scent. I think my biggest issue is that it the blooms are just so floppy and don't last long. 3 days and the blooms go from buds to all the petals blown off. I agree, it's an easy grower, but it's just...blah. It's like meeting the perfect significant other and them having the most bland personality. Great on paper, forgettable in reality.
Reply #5 of 7 posted 8 APR by goncmg
LOVE your comment! And I do agree that somehow Tiffany may even be the "perfect" rose on paper...alas, not how it plays out for a lot of us......
Reply #6 of 7 posted 5 MAY by Yankee Doodle Stevie
It sounds like we have rather similar tastes in some regards. I too consider the middle of the 20th century to be the golden age of roses. The vast majority of varieties we have grown have been released from that general era (cheating a bit on either side occasionally.)

Tiffany is indeed an all-time and modern classic. As you say, it is everything one could want in a rose. Where we are, weather can sometimes vary from the 40's one night to 90 degree highs just a day or two later. But ole gal Tiffany just keeps chugging along, looking and smelling great. There is something quite charming about it's silvery pink with gold heart flower. No disease to speak of. Cuts well. My Mom's all-time favorite, I would never be without her.
Reply #7 of 7 posted 5 MAY by Jay-Jay
One ought to try to obtain the climbing version. You could cut long-stemmed roses for the vase too from her.
most recent 3 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 27 AUG 15 by goncmg
Might this be Sunbright, released by J&P in 84? The pics look similar with that white-cream edge.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 21 JUN 16 by Dianne's Southwest Idaho Rose Garden
Sunbright is a possibility I am still considering. There is something that made me hesitate, but I am still comparing.
Reply #2 of 8 posted 22 APR by Michael Garhart
Sunbright is thorny, hates cold or wet winters, and is stiffer.
Reply #3 of 8 posted 24 APR by Dianne's Southwest Idaho Rose Garden
Yes, it definitely is not Sunblest. I grow most of the yellows in my garden and have compared them in detail. This is a mystery!
Reply #4 of 8 posted 25 APR by Patricia Routley
I pencilled in my scribble book to suggest 'Norris Pratt', but that only grows to 18".
And then 'Royal Gold' 1957, but that seems to have a rounder leaf than the foundling.
I hate to say it again (I am always saying it!) more photos of the different features are needed, rather than umpteen in-your-face bloom photos.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 25 APR by goncmg
Maybe it was a J&P Test Rose that was never introduced. Maybe it fell upon us all from the heavens above. Maybe we all are trying too much and displacing too much of our "love of roses" idealism on this one. It was found in front of a MOTEL for crying out loud. So it HAD to be pretty much available to consumers who were not shopping esoterics. 'Katy Road Pink' ended up being CAREFREE BEAUTY for crying out loud. And I think the answer with this one is close to that once we all take a breath. To our rabid love of roses credit everyone on this thread, we also know this is NOT a pre 1960 rose and likely, very likely not a pre 1980 rose.
Reply #6 of 8 posted 25 APR by Michael Garhart
"shopping esoterics"

You mean plant saviors (hehe).
Reply #7 of 8 posted 25 APR by Michael Garhart
It could be an Armstrong or old Weeks roses. Some of them never gained traction, but had commercial distribution for short spans of time. There were a few others like that from the 1960-1980s era that are no longer present.
Reply #8 of 8 posted 3 MAY by Michael Garhart
Also considering 21st Century, or other CR roses. They're huge in Texas, where this was found.
most recent 9 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 16 JAN 12 by goncmg
I DISLIKE almost no rose. But I DISLIKE Redgold. We were living in Chico, CA, summer temps in the valley are 95+, often over 100, there is no humidity. NONE. REDGOLD got these weird spots, lost all leaves......we had no idea, had to look it up...............BLACKSPOT?! Yes, in -7% humidity REDGOLD got blackspot. And the blooms would fade and fry in the sun far more so than many...............the plant is sturdy, that I will say, but if I had to answer the question "What roses do you think are morbidly over-rated and for no apparent reason" REDGOLD would be at the top of my list. So bad, it is, in my experience that a few summers ago a grocery store in Columbus has this for sale................the plants were fresh out of the greenhouse and I DO love to "rescue" a rose.............but I just walked on by................Columbus is hotter and wetter than Miami June-September...........defoliated with blackspot in Chico????? NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dislike this rose. I SAID IT!!
Reply #1 of 12 posted 16 JAN 12 by Rupert, Kim L.
Add Rumba and Charisma to this list and you have my full agreement! I like brilliantly colored roses; oranges, reds and yellows don't hurt my eyes and really good ones are a delight, but none of these have plants under them worth growing and none of them have "clean" colors, turning very muddy and dirty rather quickly.
Reply #2 of 12 posted 16 JAN 12 by goncmg
I am on St Croix now, I brought MR12 with me and a few old rose annuals, 81 being one of it is an artricle about most resistant varieties and CHARISMA CHARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REALLY????? LOL............because I agree...........going back to '49, Masquerade really never got topped other than color intensity..............Roman Holiday comes to mind, too...........and Matador...........of all the ones we just mentioned Matador had the best color but good LORD it is a mini-flora by today's standards and yes, the one that tells you there MIGHT be bs in town by running through the streets, defoliated..........
Reply #3 of 12 posted 16 JAN 12 by Nastarana
I remember when Orchard Supply was puching Redgold in CA, back in the 90s or early 00s I think. There would be a row of half a dozen of nothing but Redgold. Of all possible roses, why that one?
Reply #4 of 12 posted 16 JAN 12 by goncmg
did you choose your name here, NASTARANA by accident or do you love that little rose? !!!! :-)
Reply #5 of 12 posted 16 JAN 12 by Nastarana
I did grow Nastarana when I lived in CA, as well as other noisettes. I liked all of them very much. Nastarana had the purest white color and the best fragrance.

I just learned on the Gardenweb, that the name is Persian and apparently has a much longer and more historic lineage than I had realized.
Reply #6 of 12 posted 14 JUN 16 by Michael Garhart
I actually loved this rose, but hated the blackspot. Otherwise, I loved it. But I live next to temperate rain forest, sheltered by rivers, valleys, and mountains. Arid weather is rare here.
Reply #7 of 12 posted 8 APR by drossb1986
See, although my Redgold did get a little blackspot, I have quite a few roses that get it way worse (Neil Diamond, Stainless Steel, Rock & Roll, Blue River, name a few). And, for a body bag rose, it has been very vigorous. It's a little dull right before the petals fall off, but when it's still a bud it's extremely stunning. If it's a bad rose for this type of color combo, I wonder what a good one would be?
Reply #8 of 12 posted 8 APR by Michael Garhart
Some of us are currently trying out the new Citiscape Firebird. We'll see how that goes. There is Sheila's Perfume, but it's more of a grandiflora. It has huge blooms.

By the way, my Parade Day is really healthy. It's from the same line as Neil Diamond and Rock & Roll. It seems to have been spared the issues. The color is less brilliant though, but I am okay with that, because it smells nice and cuts well. And it's not flopping everywhere like ND and R&R can do. Has a similar plant structure to Oktoberfest.
Reply #9 of 12 posted 8 APR by Michael Garhart
A few others to consider: Tequila Sunrise. Gets a little BS. Short HT plant. Blooms last forever, but they need deadheaded immediately because they stay on the plant too long.

Quite a few minis and minifloras in this color type, but most have issues as well. But they're mostly okay. My favorite was Dee Bennett, but its quite cold tender.

Flutterbye is a decent pillar rose in this color type, and The Magician is a good climber in this color type. And there is the famous Playboy, which is love or hate, depending if singles are desired.

In Europe, there are (used to be?) more floribundas in this color range. Well, at least in my books anyhow.
Reply #10 of 12 posted 9 APR by goncmg
Michael, I LOVE Tequila Sunrise! Great call!!!! I got it in error in the late 80's/early 90's from Hortico (of course, lol) and really liked it! In Ohio always killed to the ground in winter but came back short, fat, strong, and always gave a stunning 1st spring bloom. Great foliage. Probably deserved to be better known that it is.
Reply #11 of 12 posted 9 APR by Rupert, Kim L.
I had Tequilla Sunrise eons ago, rooted from a friend's British import plant. It could be quite pretty and it had sepals which impressed me as being worthy of trying to mine cresting from...EXCEPT, in the mid desert, all I had to do was walk by it with any nitrogen, not actually apply it, but walk by it with it and the plant threw vegetative centers in every bloom. Some were so extreme, they had only a few petals, the rest was all malignant looking growths of multiple buds and deformed parts. The rest of the plant and all new growth shoots were gorgeous and totally normal looking. It was just the flower buds themselves. The hotter it got, the more it proliferated. I finally dug it out and gave it to a friend who didn't care. It grew in the "booze bed" along with Champagne Coctail; Glenfiddich; Foster's Wellington Cup and others with "booze" names.
Reply #12 of 12 posted 9 APR by goncmg
Kim! :-) I miss being on HMF and love this is how we met all those years ago! I did not have the veggie issues with Tequila Sunrise but I can soooooo see how it would be a variety that would do just that. Stout/fat/eager/thick/hard....petals, leaves, stem a little too fat for the cardboard bloom......for sure................and Glenfiddich just gave me a throw back to Edmunds when Fred and Winnie still owned it and she'd write that catalogue.................Whiskey Mac!
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