HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 14 JUN HIDE POSTS
Initial post 14 JUN by mamabotanica
How big is this rose? I see that it says 10 ft. tall (which likely means 12 at least in my garden in Southern California) but how wide is it?
I've got a nice size plant I'm ready to put in the ground but I need a trellis and I'm not sure if I can get away with one that is only 24" wide or if I need something wider.
most recent 14 JUN SHOW ALL
Initial post 27 MAY 09 by Jeff Britt
Neighbors of mine has this planted in their front garden. The house is modern and the front garden was obviously "designed" by a landscape architect using only evergreen shrubs and no flowers, except a large plant of Butterscotch. The plant always seems to have some flowers on it from April until December. The flower color is certainly interesting. It is not to my taste, but in this setting it is striking and quite beautiful. I can't imagine trying to combine it's unearthly colors with other roses and flowers, but it is an arresting sight on its own.
Reply #1 of 7 posted 27 MAY 09 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I confess I love the color. I've bred several things from it. It's an easy parent.
Reply #2 of 7 posted 28 MAY 09 by Jeff Britt
It's just such a weird color! It's very had to even describe. It reminds me of so many Legrice roses -- fascinating, bizarre and unearthly colors that change with temperature conditions and light. Butterscotch will undoubtably make some fascinating seedlings. You have more courage than I would.
Reply #3 of 7 posted 28 MAY 09 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Yes, it's a weird color. It was a favorite of the hybridizer but never caught on with much of the public. From what I can gather disease resistance is average, at best, but it's never mildewed for me which is saying something.

Most offspring were/are unremarkable. Most yellow and a few mauve or russet with probably half climbers. It could be explored much further but I don't have the space or time.

Some of the best colors came out of 'Smoky' as pollen parent but all mildew to some degree.

I will reveal all parentages in time. If you'd like to see other seedlings out of Cl. Butterscotch contact me directly.
Reply #4 of 7 posted 24 JAN 11 by Darli
I am hunting for Butterscotch Climber aka JACtan. I like the almost "paperbag" shade I see in photographs. I would like to add it to a mostly green garden area, but darn I can't find a plant source. I do have some rootstock ready for grafting in my Victoria BC garden. Bu I also have a garden in Arizona where my roses do amazingly well. Can you provife me with a sourcee for cuttings or plants? Thanks, kindly. Darlene White
Reply #5 of 7 posted 25 JAN 11 by Lyn G
Please click the HOW DO I button at the top of the page to learn how to find the source of a rose.

Reply #6 of 7 posted 14 JAN 19 by mamabotanica
It's now available from Grace Rose Farm. They have many usually colored roses.
Reply #7 of 7 posted 14 JUN by mamabotanica
Rose Story Farm In Santa Barbara also just had some for sale.
most recent 24 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 9 JUN 17 by mamabotanica
Does NO ONE have this rose at this time? I want it! It looks absolutely beautiful.
Reply #1 of 7 posted 9 JUN 17 by jedmar
Did you check the listed nurseries? Heirloom Roses still lists it, but as out of stock. You might have to wait a year. If you have a contact in Germany, Sangerhausen also usually provides cuttings in fall.
Reply #2 of 7 posted 10 JUN 17 by mamabotanica
Listed U.S. nurseries don't have it. It's not an ideal time to plant but I'd rather get it now and get it in the ground and nurse it until the weather cools down than to wait. No contacts in Germany that could get a live plant through customs to me. Oh well.
Reply #3 of 7 posted 10 JUN 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5b
I bought plenty of own-roots from Heirloom nursery. They come in TINY band-size, took months to nurse them in pots, so they can be planted in the ground. All them died in 1st winter, except for 2 vigorous old-garden roses. Old-garden roses are vigorous to withstand actual environment of drought, flood, heat, cold, and pests in the ground.

Except for some VERY VIGOROUS hybrid-teas, most modern-hybrid-tea are better as GRAFTED to bridge the difference between soil/climate where they are bred, and the soil/climate of the purchaser. The problem with roses like Kordes that are bred in Germany? Consider that climate (from internet): "The climate in Germany is temperate and marine; cool, cloudy, wet winters and summers." Consider actual climate in regions of America: hot summers up to 90 to 100 F, and weeks of no rain.

I choose roses a shade darker than desired, for the reason that cool/temperate weather makes rose deeper color, but the same roses will be completely faded in hot & sunny weather. Also alkaline-tap water fade roses horribly, but acidic rain break down the trace elements in soil, to make blooms deeper in color. Abraham Darby can be gorgeous deep pink in cool/wet climate, but it's ugly beige in hot sun, or watered with alkaline tap water. Municipals put hydrated lime in tap-water to protect pipes from corrosion, and that zap out the deep & vibrant colors in roses. Horse manure with trace elements deepen the colors, but it's a real pain to get horse manure, even when it's less than 5 min. drive.

I spend $$$ to buy lots of SOLUBLE fertilizer to nurse these wimpy own-roots in pots so they can be big enough to planted into the ground. But they never can reach the woody-status of Dr.Huey-rootstock, nor the depth of Dr.Huey-rootstock to withstand drought. It's easier to choose VIGOROUS own-roots that are suitable for one's soil and climate, than nursing UNSUITABLE tiny-own-roots into big size in pots. And even when they get big, they will be diseased if the conditions are not the same as where they are bred: temperate and wet like Germany, England, or Oregon.

So many California folks complain about own-root Kordes being stingy and not blooming. Why? To stay healthy in a wet/temperate climate like Germany, there are 2 ways: 1) breed for vigor, and that's what you want, vigorous root that can be planted as own-root, deep-root that can go for months with no rain 2) or breed so that roots secrete less acid, to protect leaves from fungal infection. The problem with roots secreting less acid? It will be stingy and no blooms in regions with less acidic rain to break down hard minerals in soil.
Reply #4 of 7 posted 10 JUN 17 by mamabotanica
No need to use the Internet to tell me about the climate in Germany! My husband is German and we've lived there. Considering that some plants I want aren't available locally I'll take my chances and report my experience. Thanks for all the info.
Reply #5 of 7 posted 10 JUN 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5b
Joan: I'm happy to hear that. I hope for more reports on any VIGOROUS own-roots, regardless of where it's bred. There are vigorous roses as OWN-ROOTS bred from Germany which are a blessing to cold-zoners: FlowerCarpet, Heaven on Earth, Poseidon. Plenty of vigorous own-roots from England and France too.

I wrote the above info. about climate differences for myself & others who have terrible experience with own-roots due to climate/soil differences. For years I could not understand the complaints against Kordes roses as being stingy as OWN-ROOTS, but now I do, after the trouble I went through with Kordes Deep Purple as own-root. Disease-resistant roses via less-acid produced aren't best for less-rain climate, but vigorous roses are a safe-bet.

The trouble that my sister in Southern CA went through with own-root Annie L. McDowell (reported as very vigorous in HMF) !! Annie was bred in CA, but that died on many folks in CA. Annie was fantastic in my alkaline clay, since I use SOLUBLE fertilizer and we got 2 years of rain exceeding 40" per year. By the 3rd year, it was less than 40" of rain, and Annie died on me. Annie was a real pain for my sister, despite being grown in a pot, with the best potting soil .. she tried so hard to make it thrive, but it died.

Retaining the colors despite alkaline tap water and hot sun is another desirable trait that I'm seeking. That's a big problem with own-roots, but not so with Grafted-on-Dr.Huey ... Dr. Huey-rootstock is very good in secreting acid to get the trace-minerals in soil, it can go through my rock hard clay better than my shovel.
Reply #6 of 7 posted 18 AUG 17 by mamabotanica
also just an fyi that you can also buy 1 gallons from heirloom nursery - I did so recently when two roses on my list went on sale. They are growing beautifully and were very healthy when received.
Reply #7 of 7 posted 24 APR by Michael Garhart
If you can get a hold of one, Louise Hays is superior in the same color type.
most recent 23 FEB HIDE POSTS
Initial post 23 FEB by mamabotanica
HI Jan, it says you have Celestial NIght. IF you are familar with this purple rose I have a question. I just got this rose and am wondering how tall it gets. I'm trying to place it in my garden and coming across conflicting information on it's height (7 ft from one site, 4 ft here) and would love to have a better idea of where it should go in my garden.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 23 FEB by jmile
I got mine last year --- it is in a pot waiting to be transplanted into the ground. It's not that big yet but the blooms are simply beautiful. I do not know how big it will ultimately grow.
© 2020