HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent yesterday SHOW ALL
Initial post 1 JAN by raingreen
Doing plant torture at Santa Fe Dam, east of Los Angeles, California, having put in a 'waterless' (no water once-established) garden including roses. Evelyn looks like a plucked chicken during the long, dry summer, with defoliation, and the remaining foliage having browned edges. Honesty compels me to add the plant had powdery mildew and rust in late spring. But the canes remain healthy (little to no sunscald), even after Santa Ana winds which killed some waterless 'Graham Thomas' and a waterless 'Le Vesuve' rose. Also, doesn't really look worse than many nearby native plants including Salvia and Encelia.

This past summer of 2019 was the first for the plant to go 'waterless'. The last soaking rain was in early June, the next soak was November 21. 'Evelyn' appears to be filling out and growing vigorously, as it would in the spring. Nice finally seeing a lush plant after months of waiting. It's actually the most lush plant in the garden, other than my waterless lawn.

People say that English roses need lots of water, and I believe this is true, but here in southern California 'Evelyn' appears to be able to grow well in the winter, when rainfall takes care of it (hopefully). Once it 'cycled off' in the summer drought it was fine. It sent out basals in July but they stopped growing some weeks later, showing the compacted internodes that many roses show when stopping growth for winter.

In order to really know, the plant needs to be evaluated for 2 more years, but it appears to be a candidate for waterless gardening in Los Angeles, especially away from the fungal issues of the coast.


Edited to add 2 weeks later: it appears many of the plant's shoots are blind--while some are extending normally-- it probably won't have a full, spring like flush of flowers this winter. Maybe not perfectly adapted for 'waterless' conditions.
Reply #1 of 9 posted 1 JAN by Nastarana
I found that some of the Austin roses were somewhat drought resistant, especially 'Evelyn' and 'Golden Celebration', which grew for me in the Central Valley into a magnificent free standing shrub the size of a small fruit tree (as did 'Polka') with almost no supplemental water.

If I may, I would urge you to not neglect so-called grey water from inside your house. No, not from the bathroom, although I have heard of some folks setting a pail on the floor of their shower, but left over cooking water such as might have been used for boiling potatoes or pasta can go on a dry plant. I used to rinse used plates and pans into a bucket, which slurry then became extra fertilizer for some favored plant. I presume you do pay for the water used inside your home. I think we might as well get as much for our H20 expense as we can. If you own your house, a water tank to catch rainwater off the roof during those occasional downpours might be a good investment.

Two found niosettes which do very well in tough growing situations are "Manchester Guardian Angel", and "Pleasant Hill Cemetary Noisette".
Reply #5 of 9 posted 2 JAN by raingreen
Nastarana, point well taken about grey water. For most residents, it wouldn't make any sense to lose plants if they only needed a bit of watering. However, the garden in question was slated to be 'waterless' once-established, there's no going back now....because it's an educational, public garden, we have to be strict that we 'walk our talk'.

Reply #2 of 9 posted 2 JAN by Rupert, Kim L.
What root stock are your Austins budded to, or are they own root?
Reply #3 of 9 posted 2 JAN by Nastarana
I've not lived in CA for 10 years. As I recall, both were purchased at local nurseries. There was quite a vogue for Austin roses from about 1990 to about 2005 or so. They would almost certainly have been on Dr. Huey.
Reply #4 of 9 posted 2 JAN by raingreen
Mine are own root. 3 David Austin varieties tested under 'waterless' conditions are Crown Princess Margareta (ugly. conspicuous dried leaves, removed in November), Graham Thomas and Evelyn; other varieties tested were Old Blush, Le Vesuve and Mrs. B. R. Cant. Out of 4 Graham Thomas, 2 died during the Santa Anas in October, and the 2 other were hardy to the tips, and are currently leafing out, not as quickly as for Evelyn. One of 2 plants of Evelyn had died upon waterless conditions in May/June but the plant had entered drought lacking in vigor, only one-half the size of the other Evelyn, probably due to inadequate soil preparation.

The natural soil on site is horrid--decomposed granite with no water retention. We brought in 18" of heavier soil and amended heavily with compost. My understanding is that moisture tends to accumulate at the boundary between the two soil types but I'm not a soil scientist. I suspected the roses would not have survived on the native, rocky soil, and it's quite clear now they wouldn't have. The roses where the soil was predominantly the native, rocky type died during the Santa Anas in October.

Don't anyone go out and try this at home unless your prepared to experiment and lose plants--results aren't established, and less than 1% of roses are suited to 'waterless' conditions in southern California. Necessary traits appear to include high heat and desiccation tolerance and the ability to grow in winter.

Reply #6 of 9 posted 2 days ago by mamabotanica
Thanks for the info! I plan to add Evelyn to my collection of garden roses in Pasadena. Always love to hear local recommendations! And especially related to heat and drought hardiness!
Reply #7 of 9 posted 2 days ago by raingreen
Yes, highly heat-and-drought resistant in reasonable soil, and has incredible, transcendent beauty in the spring. Be prepared for potential rust and powdery mildew in late spring. IMO not suited for 'waterless' gardens due to partially 'blind' growth upon pruning after the first soaking rain in fall. It would do better with the traditional late-January pruning and minimal (not zero) watering.

Reply #8 of 9 posted yesterday by Nastarana
The winter rains are critical. I found it necessary to irrigate in winters with no rain if I wanted blooms in the spring. A thick mulch helps more than one thinks it might.
Reply #9 of 9 posted yesterday by raingreen
Yes, I'm not sure what will happen in a very dry winter. What an adventure. If they are anything like the native plants they just won't grow and bloom as much. The types that don't need much pruning, like Old Blush and Mrs. B. R. Cant, may be better during the dry years because 'growth follows the knife' and if growth isn't supported with water the plants may short-circuit.

I too mulch heavily, with chipped green waste outside of the drip line and a heavy layer of high-nutrient compost underneath the plants, lighter around the root crown.
most recent 8 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 15 JAN 19 by mamabotanica
I received this rose (most likely this rose) mislabeled from David Austin Roses. They suggested it's Lady of the Lake and based on habit and flower I agree. Now I need to figure out what to do with a rambler. How are they different than a climber? It makes the most beautiful flowers and I'd like to keep her happy but I don't have a large area for a rose to just sprawl. Can I attach her to a trellis?
Reply #1 of 1 posted 8 days ago by The Nursery at Grace Rose Farm
Yes. Absolutely. A rambler has very flexible canes that can be tied into whatever you'd like. You can wrap it around poles, attach to a trellis, cover a small pillar or treat it like a climbing rose.
most recent 6 JAN SHOW ALL
Initial post 20 NOV 18 by mamabotanica
What size does this get? Susan from Grace Rose Farm (and another rose enterprise whose name I can't recall) answered my email to say 4-5 x 4-5.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 6 JAN by B2CROSE
Hello, I am the breeder of Connie's Sandstorm, and the rose can get up to 4 feet wide and 4 feet tall, depends on growing region, climate, soil, etc.
most recent 30 SEP SHOW ALL
Initial post 3 JUL 18 by mamabotanica
You have most of my favorites! I've sent a couple emails to see if I could get an extra Dijon rose (I ordered two already) but haven't heard back. What's the process to order roses? are they mostly bare root and ship in winter or potted? Budded or own root?
I'm super excited you are offering plants!
Reply #1 of 9 posted 3 JUL 18 by Nastarana
Do they sell plants or stems for florists?

If it is the latter, do they need to be listed on HMF?
Reply #2 of 9 posted 3 JUL 18 by mamabotanica
They've sold stems in the past but now are branching out into selling plants (according to a recent newsletter).
Reply #3 of 9 posted 5 JUL 18 by Nastarana
I saw no indication of plants being offered on their website. Maybe retail only for now?
Reply #4 of 9 posted 10 JUL 18 by The Nursery at Grace Rose Farm
Hi, we will be launching our bare root online shop in August. Thank you for your interest!
Reply #9 of 9 posted 30 SEP by scvirginia
I just looked at your lovely web site, and saw no place to order rose plants.

Did I just miss it, or do you only sell plants at certain times of the year, or have you decided not to sell plants yet?

Reply #5 of 9 posted 10 JUL 18 by The Nursery at Grace Rose Farm
Hi, I'll put you down for Honey Dijon. We were sold out, but I'll have two for you. We will have an online shop live in August. Roses will ship in the winter barefoot. All the roses we grow are budded on Multiflora. Any we purchase from Weeks/DA are on whatever stock they use. Thank you!
Reply #6 of 9 posted 11 JUL 18 by Nastarana
Thank you. That is good news indeed. Will you be offering any albas?
Reply #8 of 9 posted 24 JAN 19 by The Nursery at Grace Rose Farm
Hi. Apologies for the late response. At this time we have not collected any Albas but they are among our favorites. You may subscribe to our newsletter on the website to see all that we are currently offering. Thank you!
Reply #7 of 9 posted 11 JUL 18 by mamabotanica
Thanks! I have two already ordered and paid for two from your first round. Was hoping to plant three in a spot but I can make 2 work. Looking forward to the others that you offer as they come up!
Thanks, joan
© 2020