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Initial post today by HubertG
This rose definitely isn't Comtesse Riza du Parc, as in commerce in Australia. That option can safely be excluded.
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Initial post 13 MAR
* This post deleted by user *
Reply #1 of 12 posted 13 MAR by Patricia Routley
Thank you. Reference added.
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Reply #2 of 12 posted 14 MAR by HubertG
Perhaps I should have also added that this description is the accompanying text to the colour lithogroaph of Dr Grill posted here in photo ID 115362 by jedmar in April 09.
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Reply #3 of 12 posted yesterday by HubertG
From the book "Eversley Gardens and Others" by Rose G Kingsley, published by George Allen, London 1907, page 136:

"I have, however, kept two of my greatest favourites till the last. They are certainly among the very best for bedding; and one, the delightful Dr. Grill, is not as universally cultivated as it should be. Perfect in shape, prolific in flowers of a delicious mixture of pale copper shaded with tender pink and China-rose, it is deliciously fragrant and lasts well in water."
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Reply #4 of 12 posted today by Patricia Routley
Thank you HubertG. Reference added. I hope you are getting the copper message.
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Reply #5 of 12 posted today by HubertG
You're welcome. I would definitely call this pale copper.
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Reply #6 of 12 posted today by Patricia Routley
I wouldn't. I would call it "Comtesse Riza du Parc (in commerce as, in Australia)".
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Reply #7 of 12 posted today by Margaret Furness
Which has been suspected of being Dr Grill.
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Reply #9 of 12 posted today by HubertG
Also the Australian CRdP seems to throw out blooms in small clusters. Mine really is solitary and only on thick new shoots would you get as many as three flowers, but they bloom successively, not at once. See the photo above.
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Reply #8 of 12 posted today by HubertG
No, my Dr Grill definitely isn't that. "Not CRdP" has different receptacles, stems are red, flowers different.
Do you really think that it should be given it's own study name and listing?
It was purchased as Dr Grill, it would be a pity to 'de-identify' it if it is the real Dr Grill.
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Reply #10 of 12 posted today by Patricia Routley
Yes, I really do. It would keep the original rose file clear, while the search goes on. But so that your rose is not entirely lost, what about a "study name" of "Dr. Grill - ex Honeysuckle Nursery, Australia"?
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Reply #11 of 12 posted today by HubertG
That sounds like a good idea, as long as it is referenced in the original Dr Grill listing, so anyone looking up Dr Grill can still check it out. I'm not convinced it's wrong.

Edit: But then again, the Dr Grill roses shown here from Loubert, Jensen, Vintage Gardens and Bielski can't all be correct either, so I'm in two minds as to why mine should be segregated.
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Reply #12 of 12 posted today by Patricia Routley
Done. We now have two files:
'Docteur Grill' 1884
"Dr. Grill - ex Honeysuckle Nursery, Australia".

Would you please check the new foundling file.
Unfortunately I am unable to transfer the relevant comments into the new file so they will have to stay where they are. There are also the two photos above in this comment that need to be transferred, or left where they are.
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Reply #13 of 12 posted today by HubertG
Thanks. When I search for Dr Grill only the old Dr Grill file comes up.

I have found it but I had to search for contains 'honeysuckle' . No one will ever see it if it doesn't come up as an option searching for Dr Grill. When I search for 'Comtesse Riza du Parc' three options for this rose show up. Why wouldn't the new category for my Dr Grill come up when I search for Dr Grill?

The flower stems aren't red by the way. They are green. My comment a few posts above was referring to the flower stems of the Australian CRdParc.
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Initial post yesterday by Drliz
Hello all
I have just joined this amazing site.
I am researching the Rose ‘Agatha Christie’. This site has been extremely helpful. All my research tells me that both roses have no known parentage. Can anyone give me any reasons why this should be, especially as one of them was bred by Kordes as recently as 1988.
If you know anything else about this Rose - where and when launched etc I would love to know.

Thank you
Liz
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Reply #1 of 6 posted yesterday by Kathy Strong's Del Cerro Garden
well, for the Kordes rose, Kordes considers its breeding program to be proprietary information, and it chooses not to share parentage info for any of its roses. So it's not surprising that no public info exists. If you have a specific reason for wanting this rose's background, maybe you could write to Kordes and ask them to make an exception on that basis.
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Reply #2 of 6 posted yesterday by Andrew from Dolton
Agatha Christie's former home, Greenway, is not far from where I live.
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Reply #4 of 6 posted yesterday by Drliz
Andrew - I have no idea where this is. I know she was born in Devon and died in Oxfordshire. Miss Marple grew roses but did Agatha Christie herself?!
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Reply #5 of 6 posted yesterday by Andrew from Dolton
I'm not sure if she grew roses but she certainly gardened, the National Trust now manage the house and very nice garden. I have visited a couple of times but not recently. The rose was named ten years before Christie's death. The house is near Dartmouth in Devon in the south-west of England (the bit at the bottom below Wales that sticks out into the Atlantic).
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/greenway
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Reply #6 of 6 posted today by Drliz
Thank you very much for all this info’ especially the National Trust reference. I am a member of the NT and had no idea of Greenway existence. I have had a good read of the website and have emailed them about roses. Mind you until recently I knew little about Agatha Christie. Greenway is on my list of places to visit ; I can only be about 50 miles East. Thank you again. Happy gardening.
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Reply #3 of 6 posted yesterday by Drliz
Thank you very much for this information; I was unaware of this. I have emailed them but so far no response.
Best wishes
Liz
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Initial post today by Philip_ATX
For species roses, I *really* wish that in the "parentage" field, in lieu of the default "If you know the parentage of this rose..." the information provided might instead be e.g. the section (or nothotaxon) of the Rosa: in this case, for instance, Section Synstylae, Series Brunonianae
This type of information could be useful to hybridizers.
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