HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 19 FEB SHOW ALL
Initial post 27 JAN by Rupert, Kim L.
Per a post by Star Roses on Houzz - Garden Web Roses Forum, January 27, 2020:

"Star® Roses and Plants

The Petite Knock Out® Rose ('Meibenbino’ PP 30,811) will be the first rose covered by a U.S. Utility Patent, which protects the introducer by restricting any party from hybridizing with it. Whereas a standard plant patent restricts propagation, a utility patent restricts much more. Breeding, propagation, reproduction from or development of this variety is strictly prohibited with a utility patent. Because The Petite Knock Out® Rose, the first-ever, miniature Knock Out® Rose, is so unique, our company, Star® Roses and Plants, felt this plant was worthy of this level of protection. This particular variety has more versatility and flower power than any rose, making it extremely special to the world of flowers. We look forward to seeing what The Petite Knock Out® Rose brings to the market. Thank you for your cooperation and support, which we greatly appreciate."
Reply #1 of 13 posted 27 JAN by Philip_ATX
As I understand it, a utility patent can only be applied to a genetically modified organism. Would that mean the seedling resulting from the listed pedigree was modified, or is the pedigree given incorrect?

Unfortunately, I am guessing this is not a sterile cultivar, and bees *will* fertilize with it, making seedlings of roses in its vicinity potentially "illegal"?
Reply #2 of 13 posted 27 JAN by Margaret Furness
And I was under the impression that new roses shouldn't be given 5-word names.
Reply #3 of 13 posted 28 JAN by Philip_ATX
Hybridizers will likely give it a four-letter name. A utility patent has the theoretical risk of polluting a gene pool of rose seedlings, creating plants that are essentially illegal as *all* descendants would constitute patent infringements.

More to the point, most hybridizers feel humbled knowing they stand on the shoulders of the great hybridizers whose creations serve as the foundations for their own. Star has hereby taken a rose indebted to the work of prior hybridizers and put a full stop on anyone else being able to carry it to the next level.

That's definitely not in the spirit in which this community generally functions.
Reply #4 of 13 posted 28 JAN by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Reply #10 of 13 posted 29 JAN by Give me caffeine
Obvious cunning solution here: plant it next to another patented rose, wait for bees to do their thing, then let the two companies destroy each other in court arguing over who is to blame for the resulting seedlings.
Reply #11 of 13 posted 29 JAN by Margaret Furness
They'd sue the bee-keeper...
Reply #13 of 13 posted 19 FEB by Andrea Braun
We have wild bees.
Reply #5 of 13 posted 29 JAN by Nastarana
This is a most worrying precedent. Does the patent specify exactly is so special and unique about this one particular cultivar which no other of literally tens of thousands of other rose varieties don't have?

I do hope it fails in the marketplace. No doubt Star hopes that the word 'Knockout' will sell it.
Reply #6 of 13 posted 29 JAN by Rupert, Kim L.
You might find this thread on the Rose Hybridizers Association about it interesting, particularly Don's comment posted 1/29/2020 at 7:55 AM.
Reply #7 of 13 posted 29 JAN by Give me caffeine
You forgot the link. ;)
Reply #12 of 13 posted 30 JAN by Rupert, Kim L.
Reply #8 of 13 posted 29 JAN by Give me caffeine
"This particular variety has more versatility and flower power than any rose..."

Pfft. Breeders say that about every new floribunda. :P
Reply #9 of 13 posted 29 JAN by Robert Neil Rippetoe
It's called MARKETING!

That's what roses are really about.

I should know. I was a wholesale rep. lol
most recent 31 JAN SHOW ALL
Initial post 4 JUL 17 by BenT_TX
In the remake of Beauty and Beast, the heroine Belle exclaims to the Beast: 'A lifetime sentence...just for a single rose!' . She said this because her father was thrown in jail for life for stealing a bloom from the haunted garden. But immediately I thought of this rose, Dolly Parton. As long you own it, for its lifetime, plan on being sentenced to spraying and coddling it. It will will reward you with these magnificent blooms...huge, fully petaled with elegant and complex recurve, prissy high centers, sumptuous fragrance, long lasting, in a incredibly saturated scarlet orange. But while bloom has absolutely every desirable quality in spades, the underlying plant has none. The plant itself will be a thorny vision of Charlie Brown's Christmas Tree, a weak sapling making a futile effort to carry these enormous gaudy ornaments. It will require every sort of life support you can muster...Insecticide, fungicides on rotation, rich soil, amendments (alfalfa and fish emulsion please!), perhaps some support stakes to prevent collapse, warmth (does Amazon carry a rose heater?) , moist air (humidifier?).. for it to struggle along. It has the unique ability to get blackspot and mildew with equal ease. So keep up the intensive care regimen, in my mind this rose is worth it!
Reply #1 of 5 posted 4 JUL 17 by Nastarana
In my experience, both parents are much healthier than your description of DP. I did grow 'Fragrant Cloud' long before its' alleged decline in vigor which is being complained of recently. It did need some support from fertilizers but grew into a large bush not notably more diseased than other HTs.

Is DP, in your opinion, really any improvement over FC?
Reply #2 of 5 posted 5 JUL 17 by BenT_TX
In the 1990s a public rose garden I lived near (Zilker Park, Austin TX) had a bed of each rose, Dolly Parton and Fragrant Cloud. FC was by far the better plant, it's not even close. But I think FC back then was one of the easiest and most rewarding roses of all, while DP has always been a diva. I grew FC myself for many years, it was everything I could want in a modern rose...healthy, robust, generous, a very attractive bush plant always loaded with bright, hugely scented blooms. It's a shame that FC is in decline, I'm still trying to find a healthy plant of it. But the individual bloom of DP is larger, more saturated in color, higher centered , and petals more recurved, with the exact same wonderful fragrance inherited from really is most impressive, and for that, it's still worth growing.

From Oklahoma, DP inherited a propensity to mildew...but I agree, Oklahoma is even a better garden rose than DP.
Reply #3 of 5 posted 10 JAN by drossb1986
I love this review. It reminds me of how I feel about Stainless Steel. You baby the heck out of it just to get those stunning, perfect blooms you know it can produce. 100% worth it when you get them but a wreck the rest of the time. I planted DP late last year, and she just sat there because it got too hot to do much else. We will see how she performs after a good pruning, fertilizing, and cooler temps.
Reply #5 of 5 posted 31 JAN by BenT_TX
Stainless Steel got the shovel from me. Had difficulty opening in all sorts of weather, and the dingy pale gray showed every blemish. I actually far prefer Dolly Parton, her blooms are super impressive and weather/heat resistant, it’s just the plant that is rather puny.
Reply #4 of 5 posted 25 JAN by Austin 08
delightful and helpful review
most recent 28 JAN HIDE POSTS
Initial post 27 JAN by Nastarana
Nothing about the pictured pale rose looks like an alba, especially not the foliage.

Wild guess: gallica damask hybrid perhaps?
Reply #1 of 1 posted 28 JAN by jedmar
Yes, the references state it is probably a hybrid of Gallica x Damascena. The Agatha class is generally Gallica Hybrids, originally named after the Agate stone which shows variations in colour.
most recent 28 JAN HIDE POSTS
Initial post 26 JAN by Cà Berta
Very likely this rose is Supercandy the rose that in the International Rose Trial of Monza in 1966 was awarded the title of best italian rose. Supercandy was a name strongly linked to Niso Fumagalli, the patron of the event and owner of the Candy appliance company.

PS Supercandy still exists in Roseto San Giovanni, Trieste and definitly differs from Mongioia. You can see its photo in the web site Il Nuovo Cercapiante
Reply #1 of 2 posted 27 JAN by Nastarana
Ca Berta, would you know if Mansuino used an American rose named 'Ivory Triumph' in his breeding? I ask because 'Mongioia' looks rather like IT with more petals. I believe that some of von Abrams roses did find their way to Europe.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 28 JAN by Cà Berta
I am not expert of breeding but I think it unlikely becouse of the too close years of introduction in two very far away part of the world and becouse, as far as I know, Ivory Triumph was not commercially introduced in Italy.
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