HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 5 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 13 APR by Planetrj (zone 11b/H2 pH 5.8)
I would like to know if anyone growing LEH in a rainy environment has experienced this one balling in wet weather. I hope someone could chime in on this, because it’s the one concern the Southeast US and the tropics would have as a concern. I would say that balling is almost worse than an attack of BS.
Thanks for any input.
Reply #1 of 4 posted 11 days ago by Erĕbus
Hi! I live in Tuscany in a very rainy and humid zone and it never happened to me. Jude the obscure's flowers ball very often but Lady Emma Hamilton's don't (They are planted next to each other).
Reply #2 of 4 posted 10 days ago by Nastarana
I can't say about balling, but it does fade badly, to an unattractive buff color, in California sun. Maybe needs afternoon shade?
Reply #3 of 4 posted 6 days ago by Planetrj (zone 11b/H2 pH 5.8)
Thank you for your input on this. I didn’t order it for this year’s shipment, because I had seen so many mixed reviews elsewhere. Glad to hear it isn’t a stand out winner for anyone, as to miss out on the boat on something special. So far, very happy with Lady of Shalott, which seems to be closely resembling LEH from what I can see. However, not sure how the difference in fragrance would be, and just know that LOS’s extremely strong fragrance is nothing like any of my other Austins, or any other rose for that matter. No BS, No Mildew, No Balling, No Fading, throws random flowers all year, and holds its foliage all year so far. Next year will be it’s 3rd year, so I can fully evaluate and post it, but after it settled in (Own Root), it seems to keep getting better and better. Thank you for letting me know!
Reply #4 of 4 posted 5 days ago by Erĕbus
You're welcome! If I were you, I would give it a try! The fragrance is strong and detectable from afar, and mine doesn't fade to a buff colour, it becomes almost fluorescent. Bloom frequency is excellent, growth habit too,
Mine gets BS in autumn but it's not a big deal since I remove any foliage that remains. This is where (according to David Austin's site) disease spores can lay dormant ready to challenge the plant next year.
I'll attach some pictures below
most recent 7 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 11 JUL 18 by jeffbee
one of my favorite. this is a rose I would recomend to everyone.
I am a nose-roser, fragrance is one of my top standard for roses.
JC is one of the best fragrance supplier.
its fragrance is always strong, with lemon+stawberry+cream(in colder times). so the flower smells like stawberry cream cake. delicious~
the flower is bi-colored, the upper side of the petal is pink, with yellow in the center of the bloom, making the flowers look like glowing.
and the arrangement of the petals is divine~! so harmonious
JC does not grow fast, but strangely , it's still very remonant, with above-average bloom quantity.
in my experience, JC likes loose soil with better drainage(comparing to other austins)
JC grows slower, so a bit more nutrients would help.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 26 AUG by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Thank you for your experience !!
Reply #2 of 8 posted 27 AUG by Nastarana
Jeffbee, could you tell us something about the climate in your part of China? The Austin roses in particular are somewhat notorious for being rather fussy about climate in the USA. 'Graham Thomas' for example is magnificent most of CA and a wimpy disease magnet in the North East.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 8 days ago by jeffbee
sorry for the late reply, I live in China, so you know I seldom receive messages from abroad in time......
I live in Shanghai at that moment, with very humid weather, lots of rain from march to may, and also very hot in summer.
but JC is definitely very resistant to most diseases, almost no disease at all.
you can trust this one:)
Reply #6 of 8 posted 8 days ago by Jay-Jay
But in periods of hot weather and drought, it stops flowering. No repeat flowering in 2018 & 2019 at all!
Reply #7 of 8 posted 8 days ago by jeffbee
i agree.
it seems most austin likes good water supply, they don't do well in drought conditions.
and I also agree on the hot condition thing. because Shanghai have very hot summer..... we use every method from using shade nets for covering, to use bricks to raise up the pots from the burning concrete floor, to help the roses survive the notorious shanghai summer.....
i think it's relevant with the breeder, austins are from England, where the climate is humid and cool. the austins perform best in this kind of condition.
Reply #8 of 8 posted 7 days ago by Jay-Jay
Maybe, You better try the roses that thrive in Australia. As for instance Tea roses. Or the roses that originate in their ancestry from Chinese roses. Best Regards an Good Luck!
Reply #3 of 8 posted 14 days ago by HappyRose
How will it do in Austin, texas hot heat. When it rains, some of my roses will get black spot bad. Is this rose black spot resistance?
Reply #4 of 8 posted 14 days ago by Jay-Jay
As for Black-spot it does well in my garden. Even last year with temps up to 40°C and dry weather with lots of sun.
But our climate isn't comparable to the Texan.
In rain or humid conditions no Black-spot to my knowledge, I rated it for disease-resistance on HMF as excellent!
You might take a look at the photo's on HMF of foliage or of the whole plant for this rose.
most recent 8 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 4 JUL 17 by BenT_TX
In the remake of Beauty and Beast, the heroine Belle exclaims to the Beast: 'A lifetime sentence...just for a single rose!' . She said this because her father was thrown in jail for life for stealing a bloom from the haunted garden. But immediately I thought of this rose, Dolly Parton. As long you own it, for its lifetime, plan on being sentenced to spraying and coddling it. It will will reward you with these magnificent blooms...huge, fully petaled with elegant and complex recurve, prissy high centers, sumptuous fragrance, long lasting, in a incredibly saturated scarlet orange. But while bloom has absolutely every desirable quality in spades, the underlying plant has none. The plant itself will be a thorny vision of Charlie Brown's Christmas Tree, a weak sapling making a futile effort to carry these enormous gaudy ornaments. It will require every sort of life support you can muster...Insecticide, fungicides on rotation, rich soil, amendments (alfalfa and fish emulsion please!), perhaps some support stakes to prevent collapse, warmth (does Amazon carry a rose heater?) , moist air (humidifier?).. for it to struggle along. It has the unique ability to get blackspot and mildew with equal ease. So keep up the intensive care regimen, in my mind this rose is worth it!
Reply #1 of 3 posted 4 JUL 17 by Nastarana
In my experience, both parents are much healthier than your description of DP. I did grow 'Fragrant Cloud' long before its' alleged decline in vigor which is being complained of recently. It did need some support from fertilizers but grew into a large bush not notably more diseased than other HTs.

Is DP, in your opinion, really any improvement over FC?
Reply #2 of 3 posted 5 JUL 17 by BenT_TX
In the 1990s a public rose garden I lived near (Zilker Park, Austin TX) had a bed of each rose, Dolly Parton and Fragrant Cloud. FC was by far the better plant, it's not even close. But I think FC back then was one of the easiest and most rewarding roses of all, while DP has always been a diva. I grew FC myself for many years, it was everything I could want in a modern rose...healthy, robust, generous, a very attractive bush plant always loaded with bright, hugely scented blooms. It's a shame that FC is in decline, I'm still trying to find a healthy plant of it. But the individual bloom of DP is larger, more saturated in color, higher centered , and petals more recurved, with the exact same wonderful fragrance inherited from really is most impressive, and for that, it's still worth growing.

From Oklahoma, DP inherited a propensity to mildew...but I agree, Oklahoma is even a better garden rose than DP.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 8 days ago by drossb1986
I love this review. It reminds me of how I feel about Stainless Steel. You baby the heck out of it just to get those stunning, perfect blooms you know it can produce. 100% worth it when you get them but a wreck the rest of the time. I planted DP late last year, and she just sat there because it got too hot to do much else. We will see how she performs after a good pruning, fertilizing, and cooler temps.
most recent 2 JAN HIDE POSTS
Initial post 1 JAN by raingreen
Doing plant torture at Santa Fe Dam, east of Los Angeles, California, having put in a 'waterless' (no water once-established) garden including roses. Evelyn looks like a plucked chicken during the long, dry summer, with defoliation, and the remaining foliage having browned edges. Honesty compels me to add the plant had powdery mildew and rust in late spring. But the canes remain healthy (little to no sunscald), even after Santa Ana winds which killed some waterless 'Graham Thomas' and a waterless 'Le Vesuve' rose. Also, doesn't really look worse than many nearby native plants including Salvia and Encelia.

This past summer of 2019 was the first for the plant to go 'waterless'. The last soaking rain was in early June, the next soak was November 21. 'Evelyn' appears to be filling out and growing vigorously, as it would in the spring. Nice finally seeing a lush plant after months of waiting. It's actually the most lush plant in the garden, other than my waterless lawn.

People say that English roses need lots of water, and I believe this is true, but here in southern California 'Evelyn' appears to be able to grow well in the winter, when rainfall takes care of it (hopefully). Once it 'cycled off' in the summer drought it was fine. It sent out basals in July but they stopped growing some weeks later, showing the compacted internodes that many roses show when stopping growth for winter.

In order to really know, the plant needs to be evaluated for 2 more years, but it appears to be a candidate for waterless gardening in Los Angeles, especially away from the fungal issues of the coast.


Edited to add 2 weeks later: it appears many of the plant's shoots are blind--while some are extending normally-- it probably won't have a full, spring like flush of flowers this winter. Maybe not perfectly adapted for 'waterless' conditions.
Reply #1 of 5 posted 1 JAN by Nastarana
I found that some of the Austin roses were somewhat drought resistant, especially 'Evelyn' and 'Golden Celebration', which grew for me in the Central Valley into a magnificent free standing shrub the size of a small fruit tree (as did 'Polka') with almost no supplemental water.

If I may, I would urge you to not neglect so-called grey water from inside your house. No, not from the bathroom, although I have heard of some folks setting a pail on the floor of their shower, but left over cooking water such as might have been used for boiling potatoes or pasta can go on a dry plant. I used to rinse used plates and pans into a bucket, which slurry then became extra fertilizer for some favored plant. I presume you do pay for the water used inside your home. I think we might as well get as much for our H20 expense as we can. If you own your house, a water tank to catch rainwater off the roof during those occasional downpours might be a good investment.

Two found niosettes which do very well in tough growing situations are "Manchester Guardian Angel", and "Pleasant Hill Cemetary Noisette".
Reply #5 of 5 posted 2 JAN by raingreen
Nastarana, point well taken about grey water. For most residents, it wouldn't make any sense to lose plants if they only needed a bit of watering. However, the garden in question was slated to be 'waterless' once-established, there's no going back now....because it's an educational, public garden, we have to be strict that we 'walk our talk'.

Reply #2 of 5 posted 2 JAN by Rupert, Kim L.
What root stock are your Austins budded to, or are they own root?
Reply #3 of 5 posted 2 JAN by Nastarana
I've not lived in CA for 10 years. As I recall, both were purchased at local nurseries. There was quite a vogue for Austin roses from about 1990 to about 2005 or so. They would almost certainly have been on Dr. Huey.
Reply #4 of 5 posted 2 JAN by raingreen
Mine are own root. 3 David Austin varieties tested under 'waterless' conditions are Crown Princess Margareta (ugly. conspicuous dried leaves, removed in November), Graham Thomas and Evelyn; other varieties tested were Old Blush, Le Vesuve and Mrs. B. R. Cant. Out of 4 Graham Thomas, 2 died during the Santa Anas in October, and the 2 other were hardy to the tips, and are currently leafing out, not as quickly as for Evelyn. One of 2 plants of Evelyn had died upon waterless conditions in May/June but the plant had entered drought lacking in vigor, only one-half the size of the other Evelyn, probably due to inadequate soil preparation.

The natural soil on site is horrid--decomposed granite with no water retention. We brought in 18" of heavier soil and amended heavily with compost. My understanding is that moisture tends to accumulate at the boundary between the two soil types but I'm not a soil scientist. I suspected the roses would not have survived on the native, rocky soil, and it's quite clear now they wouldn't have. The roses where the soil was predominantly the native, rocky type died during the Santa Anas in October.

Don't anyone go out and try this at home unless your prepared to experiment and lose plants--results aren't established, and less than 1% of roses are suited to 'waterless' conditions in southern California. Necessary traits appear to include high heat and desiccation tolerance and the ability to grow in winter.

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