HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Jeri Jennings
most recent 26 JUL HIDE POSTS
Initial post 26 JUL by Jeri Jennings
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, so I thought I might, before the comment is "lost" to time and attrition ...

We got our WPIRDM as a cutting from the Sacramento City Cemetery collection, handed to us long ago by the late Barbara Oliva, then Curator of Roses. When she gave it to us, Barbara told us that she was working in the garden one day when a busload of Chinese Tourists arrived to tour. One of the ladies was excited to recognize the rose as one she knew, and told Barbara its' legend.

The name, she said, 'Chi Long Han Zhu' -- White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth -- came from a legend of a red dragon who dwelt within the Imperial Palace. At night, the dragon flies out over the Land of China, seeking Virtue.

When he finds it, he takes it back to the Emperor, in the form of a glowing Pearl, held gently in the Dragon's flaming mouth.

And so it has its name. If you look into a freshly-opened bloom, you will see the red of the dragon's in-curving mouth, the flaming yellow stamens, and the white pearl of an "eye" at the center.
most recent 14 JUN HIDE POSTS
Initial post 13 JUN by Jeri Jennings
O'otika is crowded a bit by a massive "Elisabeth's China" but it is nevertheless almost always in bloom, and has never suffered any form of disease. O'otika brightens her corner all the time.
Reply #1 of 4 posted 14 JUN by Patricia Routley
Brightens it with what? Red, pink, deep pink, carmine-pink?
Reply #2 of 4 posted 14 JUN by Jeri Jennings
I'd call it closer to dark coral than anything else.

I honestly think that it's the huge cluster of strongly-yellow stamens that first catch the eye.

Kim made an entry for it.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 14 JUN by Patricia Routley
Yes, I noted he had made the entry on June 13. But he omitted the colour.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 14 JUN by Jeri Jennings
Well, he hasn't seen it for a couple of years, because it's here.
most recent 6 JUN HIDE POSTS
Initial post 4 JUN by Jeri Jennings

(I didn't want this to be lost.)

Gregg Lowery Anita, ask anyone in Australia about our conversations regarding ID. We declared a mutual understanding that when we offered a name for a rose, it was not with authority of experience (none of us was born a hundred years before and could provide certainty), but with the name we had received a rose under. That was it. The unsolved mysteries are just that. Dr. Eugene Peck was a physician who lived and worked in Oakland and was among the founding members of the Heritage Roses Group. He was retired and a volunteer at the Oakland Public Library, and obsessed with gathering information from books and periodicals that dealt with roses popular in Oakland in the late 19th century. He found many roses in old Oakland gardens including his "12th Avenue Smoothie", so called in reference to the mostly thornless stems of the rose. We received this rose under many names including Gaspard Monge (cuttings from the rose originally planted in the San Jose Heritage), as well as from Roseraie de l'Hay and Schultheis. We saw it everywhere in Australian as well as NZ. What is so important about this rose, in my opinion is that it is so beautiful, with crepe-like texture to the petals and a pale green eye, or 'pointed' as Graham Thomas described it—what Ruth Knopf referred to as a 'Steeple'. No wonder it is everywhere. Don't dwell on getting the name right. The story of its enthrallment over all who see it is enough.
Reply #1 of 6 posted 4 JUN by HMF Admin
Thank you Jeri.
Reply #2 of 6 posted 4 JUN by Jeri Jennings
You're welcome. Information too good to be lost in FB.
Reply #3 of 6 posted 4 JUN by Patricia Routley
And too much information in both the Australian and American foundling files to keep them apart. I’ll merge
"Dr. Peck's 12th Avenue Smoothie. (Cal. USA)” with
"Mrs. Something (Q'ld. AUS)”
Reply #4 of 6 posted 4 JUN by Jeri Jennings
Reply #5 of 6 posted 6 JUN by Patricia Routley
Having a slight problem with that Merge. We’ll get to it.
Reply #6 of 6 posted 6 JUN by Jeri Jennings
No rush! :-)
most recent 28 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 23 MAY by Jeri Jennings
But, what I would really like very much to know is, does the rose labelled 'Cornet' at Sangerhausen have a recorded history that is separate from Sangerhausen.

As we know, there have been several mid-identifications from post WWII Sangerhausen. So, do we have any pre-Sangerhausen provenance?
Reply #1 of 9 posted 24 MAY by jedmar
I am afraid all the gardens and nurseries listed for Germany have a Sangerhausen connection. I will try to find out the provenance of the rose in the two French nurseries.
Reply #2 of 9 posted 24 MAY by Jeri Jennings
That would be so helpful. Thank you. :-)

At this point, it seems to me to be clear that the rose WE know as "Grandmother's Hat" is identical to the rose Sangerhausen calls 'Cornet'.

But, after the "Irene Watts" and "Francis Dubreuil" debacles, I can't bring myself to accept the 'Cornet' identification unconditionally.
Reply #3 of 9 posted 24 MAY by jedmar
Not to forget "Park's Yellow"!
Reply #4 of 9 posted 24 MAY by Jeri Jennings
Among others . . .

You know, the late Col. Mel Hulse, of the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden, told me that there had been a WWII Tank battle fought over at least a portion of Sangerhausen. And of course, many of their records went to Russia.

So it would not be at all surprising to know that there are more mis-identifications in that great garden than we know.
Reply #5 of 9 posted 24 MAY by Patricia Routley
Jeri, I note that there are really only European and Australian references in the ‘Cornet’ file. Do you have any old American literature from which someone from your country could start to add references to HelpMeFind. I am currently having to pull back a little and we could REALLY do with at least two volunteer administrators/moderators from your country.
Reply #6 of 9 posted 24 MAY by Jeri Jennings
Honestly, I don't know of any.
Reply #7 of 9 posted 27 MAY by jedmar
I have one reply from France: believes it was from the Fineschi rosarium in Italy. As Fineschi did not have the rose in 2000, this doesn't help. The other introduced it 2016. So a dead-end, too.
Reply #8 of 9 posted 28 MAY by Jeri Jennings
So we are no further ahead at all, which is sad, but non unexpected.

We can be reasonably sure that 'Cornet' from Sangerhausen and "Grandmother's Hat" from California (and may be Australia) are the same . . . but there is no real evidence that the Sangerhausen rose IS 'Cornet'. And "Grandmother's Hat" changes color at the drop of a hat, which is also confusing.
Reply #9 of 9 posted 28 MAY by jedmar
Hat fashions!
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