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Initial post 3 days ago by CybeRose
Rose Listing Omission

Rosa microcarpa Retz.

A. J. Retzius in Phytographische Blätter pp. 40-41 (1803)
ROSA microcarpa caule petiolisque aculeatis, calycibus integerrimis glandulosis, pedunculis inermibus, germinibus ovatis nudis,
Radix haud repens.
Caules quinquepedales, stricti, aculeati. 
Aculei recurvi substipulares et sparsi.
Petioli subtus dense aculeati, subvillosi, stipulis minutis serrulatis glandulosis.
Folia septena foliolis undique serrulatis, supra rugosa, subtus villosula, ovata.
Pedunculi tri-quadriflori, mudi, inermes,
Bractea sub quovis pedicello ovato-acuminata , serrulato-glandulosa, rarius trifida.
Pedicelli nudi, gabri, bibracteati, bracteis latis acuminatis.
Germen ovato-oblongum, nudum, glabrum.
Calycina folia parce glandulis pedicellatis aspersa, integerrima, petalis breviora, tribus apice parum dilatatis.
Petala rosea , sere biloba, grate odora. 
Fructus ruber, parvus, ovato-oblongus, colo angustato.
Reply #1 of 5 posted 2 days ago by jedmar
This is also a synonym of Rosa cymosa Tratt.
Reply #2 of 5 posted 2 days ago by CybeRose
Rosa microcarpa Lindl. = R. cymosa Tratt.

Retzius had a different species in mind. Trattinnick (1823) thought Retzius' microcarpa was a form of R. canina: "b) R. microcarpa Retz, sorte nil nisi canina?"
Reply #3 of 5 posted yesterday by jedmar
Did he? I was checking on IOPI and GBIF. In this case needs more Research. Kew, The Plant List and the Encylopedia of Life say it is a synonym of Rosa glabrifolia C. A. Mey. ex Rupr.
Reply #4 of 5 posted yesterday by CybeRose
Strictly speaking, Trattinnick reported that Sprengel thought R. microcarpa Retz. was akin to canina. Sprengel also (apparently) thought R. laxa Retz. was akin to R. cinnamomeae.

I haven't found Sprengel, yet. I did find Herrmann (1762), if you're interested.

I just found Sprengel (1820), but have not had a chance to read it.
The discussion of R. laxa and R. microcarpa Retz. is on 254-255
Reply #5 of 5 posted today by jedmar
I have added the Translation of Sprengel's text, but it doesn't really help. The work of these earlier botanists is very often outdated. We need to look at when and by whom the synonymity of R. microcarpa Retz with R. glabrifolia C.Mey was postulated. That will be probably the latest knowledge.
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Initial post today by Michael Garhart
I usually don't like the gold meets mauve types of russets, but this one looks super cool.
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Initial post 12 JUL 10 by kev
the rose pictured here is pink.Duc de Fitzjames is not this colour.It is a deep violet/purple and dark crimson red.
Reply #1 of 6 posted 13 MAY 12 by MelissaPej
The 'Vintage Book of Roses' says that there are two plants in commerce called 'Duc de Fitzjames', one darker than the other. Mine is lilac pink, similar to the flowers I see in the photos. My plant came from 'La Campanella' in Italy, but I don't know where they got their mother plant. According to Vintage the darker-flowered variety is likelier to be the correct one.
Reply #2 of 6 posted 13 MAY 12 by HMF Admin
Interesting, thanks for taking the time to sharing this insight with HelpMeFind. Just what HMF is all about - a tool to collect and disseminate gardening information to a participating online community.
Reply #3 of 6 posted 31 JUL by jedmar
La Campanella has many of their Gallicas from Cour de Commer - the collection of François Joyaux. 'Duc de Fitzjames' in commerce is often 'Mme Lauriol de Barny', a Bourbon rose.
Reply #4 of 6 posted 13 days ago by MelissaPej
I don't have 'Mme. Lauriol de Barny' in the garden and haven't seen it, at least not identified as such. I took a look at the newest page of photos of this variety on HMF, and, though I haven't made a careful comparison, right now I wouldn't swear that the rose I see in the photos isn't my 'Duc de Fitzjames'. My rose is a good tough variety with opulent blooms, coming easily from cuttings, has never reflowered later in the season, and gets some fungal disease after blooming, though not enough to do it any harm. Lanky in growth; thorny. I'm fond of it, mainly because of the very handsome blooms combined with the ability to flourish in quite poor conditions.
Reply #5 of 6 posted 12 days ago by jedmar
Melissa, it would be very helpful if you could post some photos of your 'Duc de Fitzjames' on HMF.
Reply #6 of 6 posted today by MelissaPej
I'm a reluctant photographer (and this isn't the season anyway). I wanted to add to my description that my 'Duc de Fitzjames' sets hips, which are rounded oval, about 2cm wide and slightly longer, and smooth, the orifice not wide, sepals not persistent. They haven't matured yet so I don't know their color. A final note: my rose has long-lived canes, and suckers out, slowly and not aggressively.
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Initial post today by Nola Z5
David Austin's website lists Huntington Rose as zone 5-10.
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