HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent yesterday HIDE POSTS
Initial post 2 days ago by Patricia Routley
“Many years ago” is a bit too elastic. Does anybody know when Giles Nursery closed? - and does anybody have any old Giles Nursery catalogues? Bush height would be good to have as it might rule out a few Mallerin varieties.
Reply #1 of 3 posted yesterday by mmanners
Pat, I'm going to guess that they closed around 15 years ago. I don't believe they ever published a catalog. My bush is not very old, but it's currently around 4 feet tall. Fairly vigorous, but not trying to get a lot taller, quickly. I should have also mentioned that it is intensely old-rose (damask) fragrant. I just posted more photos.
Reply #2 of 3 posted yesterday by Patricia Routley
Thanks Mal.
I've added a couple of characteristics on the folioles and the prickles.
Reply #3 of 3 posted yesterday by mmanners
I should also say that while Mike acquired it from Giles, they did not give it that name; they may have had a legitimate rose name label on it that was later lost. I named it because it was Mike who gave it to me.

And I just now checked with Jim Giles -- they closed their nursery in 2002, so that would have been when Mike purchased this rose. At their going-out-of-business sale.
most recent 2 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 2 days ago by mmanners
Rose Listing Omission

Mike Pursell's Rose

This is a "found" rose name for a plant given me by Mike Pursell. He had acquired it many years ago from Giles Nursery, in Haines City Florida, when they were in the process of closing the nursery. He thought it was one of their unnamed hybrid seedlings, but Diann Giles doesn't remember breeding such a rose. It may also be an older, named HT, whose identity has been lost.
As is true of many deep red roses, the photos don't show the depth of color. Outer petals can be nearly velvety black. Flowers are smallish for an HT (perhaps up to 3.5 inches; mostly around 3 inches). It sets hips freely.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 2 days ago by Patricia Routley
“ Mike Pursell's Rose” added. I will comment further in that new file.
most recent 15 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 10 SEP 17 by Give me caffeine
'Peace' has reverted to growing neither forwards nor backwards. Or, to be specific, doing both alternately, with overall progress being conspicuous by its absence. Still a small bush, often quite manky, but throws out proper 'Peace' flowers when it's in the mood.

The current one was only a hardware store body bag, on dog knows what rootstock. Could be on lantana for all I know.

I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to source another one, on multiflora. Might do better.
Reply #1 of 5 posted 10 SEP 17 by Margaret Furness
The old grey mare, she ain't what she used to be... Peace is one of the roses which is said to have lost vigour, due to over-propagating. Your best bet is to grow it (or get someone to strike it for you) from a cutting from an old plant.
Reply #2 of 5 posted 10 SEP 17 by Patricia Routley
....from a vigorous old plant.
Reply #3 of 5 posted 11 SEP 17 by Give me caffeine
Yep. I was wondering if T4R had a good old plant as their scion stock.
Reply #4 of 5 posted 15 MAY by mmanners
I just now posted this to Facebook, and I see it's relevant here: "As you likely know, there was a lot of discussion in the late 1980s and early '90s (and still to some degree today) about "genetic decline" of roses -- the idea that "overpropagation" had made plants weaker and less desirable than they had been when new. And Peace was given as a prime example -- it had lost its pinkness and become more just pale yellow, as well as becoming far less vigorous than people remembered. I always doubted the idea of the mechanism, in that the "overpropagation" theory made no biological sense. Yes, if you make millions of copies of a rose, you'll see mutations among them. But they won't ALL mutate in the SAME way, which is what the overall degeneration seemed to indicate. Another concept, less popularly believed, was that it was one or more viruses that might be causing the overall decline. Again, a challenging concept, in that the whole population would need to catch the same virus(es). Nevertheless, we did discover, early in our heat-therapy work, that some older roses really seemed to be rejuvenated by the process, whether or not they tested positive for any known viruses. And Peace was one of them -- the heat-treated form was far superior (and in the memories of those who knew Peace back in the 1940s and early '50s, back to its good old self). I remember Mel Hulse exclaiming that the heat-treated form was Peace as he remembered it. So it is my suspicion (for which I have no further evidence or proof) that one or more viruses may be involved in this thing we call decline, in older rose varieties. And if heat therapy or some other method used to remove viruses is used, it MAY rejuvenate the rose. Alternatively, there may be some form of "aging" that happens in some (but certainly not all -- think Autumn Damask) roses, that is controlled epigenetically, and perhaps heat therapy resets that clock in some way. Pure conjecture of course; but at least we do have good, vigorous, pink-tinged Peace!" And oops, realizing this has been discussed on other threads, here, in the past. But I was reminded of the topic this morning with our lots-of-pink Peace flowering in our garden.
Reply #5 of 5 posted 15 MAY by Give me caffeine
This sounds all very groovy, but does anyone have such stock in Australia? I have a nasty suspicion the answer is currently "no".

The plant I had (since gone kaput) looked like a real 'Peace' when it was happy. It had the pink tones and the great foliage and was much as I remembered the ancient monster that grew where I lived several decades ago. The problem was that it couldn't hold onto its foliage in this climate, and couldn't get going enough to bulk up to a good sized shrub. It eventually gave up the ghost.
most recent 15 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 11 MAR 19 by Matt's Northwest Florida Garden
Anyone try Peace on Fortuniana ?
Reply #1 of 4 posted 11 MAR 19 by Patricia Routley
Probably the entire city of Perth, Western Australia, grew ‘Peace’ on Fortuniana.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 12 MAR 19 by billy teabag
Yes - What Patricia said - Fortuniana is the recommended rootstock here in Perth (sandy soils, hot & dry summers, nematodes). I have two plants of 'Peace' on fortuneana rootstock that are almost 30 years old. They are strong, healthy and floriferous.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 1 AUG by ksinGA
Yes. Peace is fantastic on fortuniana. K&M Roses has it.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 15 MAY by mmanners
We've grown it on 'Fortuniana' for at least 35 years, in Lakeland Florida.
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