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HubertG 
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I refuse to buy a rose named Ketchup and Mustard! Please please please - roses are elegant and should be named that way. It looks like a beautiful rose, but with that name all I can see is a hot dog --- and I'm a VEGETARIAN! ;)
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But, might not those condiments also be appropriate for a veggie burger? As for "elegance" in rose names, you're forgetting ones such as "Happy Butt" , "Sweet Revenge" and "Crazy Dottie". Nothing "elegant" about those and there are many, many more.
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Many many wrongs don't make a right! ;)
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"Tofu" included! LOL!
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That's what happens, when the rose naming is done before the lunch. :)
I am with DonaldQuRoses on this one though, it is a very no-awe inspiring rose name.
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#5 of 29 posted
8 FEB 12 by
Jay-Jay
Piccalilly....oh I'm sorry.... Piccadilly is in the parentage too! (and Peace off course!)
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#6 of 29 posted
9 FEB 12 by
Seil
I don't let the names bother me too much any more. If the rose is lovely I don't really care what the breeder decided to name it. There are too many really gorgeous roses that are named after politicians and so called "stars" that, except for their names, I want. So I just buy what I like and to heck with the names. Unless you exhibit and need to have the correct "Approved Exhibition Name" (AEN) if you find a rose you really love with a name you hate just buy the rose and pick your own name for it! Whose gonna know or care?
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I've honestly bought many over the years simply due to the name. At the "entrance" to my old desert garden, as it bordered a private golf course in a planned community, I planted Buck's "Hi Neighbor" as the greeting to the garden, though I honestly don't like the rose. I planted Hiroshima's Children next to Pearl Harbor. All of the "booze" inspired were planted together in "the bar". Tequilla Sunrise, Champagne Cocktail, Courvoisier and a number of others named for either alcohol or drinks were "tended" there.
I grew many which were named for notable, strong, intelligent women, Marian Anderson, Madame Chiang Kai-shek and others, held their court together. Though I've never grown it, The Wife of Bath is probably one I should as Bath's Wife was a formidable woman for her time!
The names don't have to be elegant to have meaning. Personally, I think the British have the best idea from a marketing standpoint. Name them for special occasions, making them the perfect gift for each one. I would add support for "catchy" names such as Eyes for You as it's actually lyrical, "I only have eyes, for you..." I think women's names are a sure bet to make them marketable, too. How many times have you at least been tempted to buy a rose (or other plant) to honor someone because it was their name? Believe me, it can be a very emotional moment! I planted a fuchsia in a friend's garden I'd found, which bore her name. She called to tell me how much she loved it. I asked if she'd red the tag. She returned, exclaiming, "it's MY name!" The next time I saw them, her husband came up to me, wrapped his arm around my shoulder, looked me in the eye and said, "Ya made my girl cry!" I apologized and asked if that was a good thing. He winked and said, "Thanks!" I thought it very sweet after forty years of marriage.
Why must only minis get the catchy, "cutsie" names? At least Ketchup and Mustard FITS the coloring of the rose and doesn't gag me like names such as "Angel Face". Argh!
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#8 of 29 posted
9 FEB 12 by
Seil
Oh, I too have bought my share strictly because of the name. At one time I had one for each member of my family except my brother Alan. He was very disappointed because we just couldn't find any rose named Alan.
And I confess I like the cutsie names! I bought Tattooed Lady because the name just tickled me and I don't even have a tattoo. Once I got the rose I found the name really does fit the look of the rose too. I love the name "White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth" and wish I could grow it here. "Tipsy Imperial Concubine" Is another great one.
For my money I hope breeders don't all decide to get all serious and only use "elegant" names. I hope they continue to come up with fun and sometimes intriguing names. My brother dubbed one of my seedlings out of What a Peach, "Son of a Peach" and I like it, lol!
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Tom Carruth told the story of a peach colored moss mini he created some years ago. The naming was a collaborative effort in the office. One of the marketing people suggested the name they went with, Peach Fuzz, and then from then on, he checked to see how "his rose" was doing. I agree with you about cute names. I've been accused of using "quirky" names. Perhaps. I'm still looking for just the right seedling to name, "Tequilla Mockingbird"!
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#10 of 29 posted
9 FEB 12 by
Seil
Lol, I love it, Kim! I think it would need to be yellow and orange stripes myself.
I'll bet that naming that rose Peach Fuzz gave that worker the feeling he had a vested interest in the rose so he wanted to keep track of it.
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I'm sure of it. Can you imagine how exciting it was for him to go home and tell his family HE named their new rose, then share such a clever name with them?
I love the stories behind them such as the ones for Just Joey and Hi. They're cute and real. I really must retaliate for Angel Face and name one "Kissie Face"!
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#12 of 29 posted
9 FEB 12 by
Jay-Jay
We grow Warm Wishes at our front door; not for the name, (that's a bonus) but for the colour. But my wifes taste altered and this autumn we'll plant there brighter and smaller roses: Tintinara. We'll keep the W.W. and plant them elsewhere in the garden.
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Hm I normally do not buy a rose because of the name, although some are a nice bonus (like Jude the Obscure, Distant Drums, A Whiter Shade of Pale or Alchemist).
I wish there was more naming based on a literature/movie characters than the real people. To give a well know example, a name Princess Leia would say more than a name Carrie Fisher, an actress who played her in the SW saga, or Arwen Evenstar would say more than Liv Tyler, who played her in LoTR.
I have a fair share of the obligatory real "ladies" in the garden, and most of them leave me rather cold and uninterested when I Google up who their were.
I am not all that fond of the "Captain Obvious is obvious" names either, like Pink Beauty, Pink Angel, Pink Cover, etc. There is zero imagination and poetry in that. Could as well be named a Pink Zombie (or Pink Zombina, to follow a generic femininity of the rose names). x)
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Agreed, but naming a rose for a "celebrity" is a two edged sword. You'll have those who will buy it FOR the connection and many who won't buy it BECAUSE of it. Naming them for politicians, particularly here in the US is now certain death for a rose in most cases. Austin was very wise to choose Shakespeare to name some of his earlier roses for, but even those can have negative connotations. You'd have to be very careful to obtain permission (often with financial considerations involved) to use modern fictional character names. Not that you'd want to, but imagine what it might cost for permission to call a rose "Shrek"!
Ironically, it's the "zombie" type names you dislike which sell best, at least in this country. They have no negative associations with people or behaviors, are easily remembered, and possess enough of a positive and descriptive element to remain 'commercial' for decades without any special social or political knowledge of a particular time required to understand their names. Warren Millington, an Australian breeder, has a real knack for coming up with amusing, entertaining, descriptive, memorable names. You should check his out. I think you'd enjoy them.
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Hehe Natural Blonde and Social Butterfly are definitely names to remember. :)
Regarding the naming though, the copyright issue is rather complicated. In general you cannot copyright the names (imagine a hassle if someone called their child Shrek, and if then someone wanted to call a rose after mister Shrek Smith). There are fine lines with it of course and the various institutional demands, and in general it is less stressful not to pick the obvious unique naming. However, the trick is to pick the less obvious cultural references, like for example a common phrase "At least we don't sparkle" is a direct reference to the movie saga Twilight, however you cannot pin a copyright to this kind of cultural reference, because it is too generic, although identifiable phrase. :)
Said that, my generation probably will be garden marketing viable only in a few decades, so I am rather curious how that will change the generic naming trends. :)
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Those are funny! A few years ago, J&P introduced two climbers, High Society and Social Climber. Of course, I liked the second one a lot better, both for size, color, health and definitely the name! Ralph Moore named a striped seedling, Two Timer, and a mutual friend went absolutely ballistic as her ex husband was one!
In 1927 there was a HT named, with permission, for the industrialist, Henry Ford. Twenty-seven years later, his permission was once again asked to name a rose for him, which he refused. The creator actually found another gentleman named Henry Ford and obtained HIS permission to name the rose for him, though the public never knew it.
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lol, Social Climber sounds like a perfect name for a rose that tends to escape to the neighbors garden, you know, to socialize (and steal their sunlight). :)
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Actually, that's more High Society around here. It's a much larger climber. Social Climber is quite happy in a 20" pot on a friend's patio, growing happily into her lattice covering. In the open ground, it's usually less than 10' high, making it perfect for the common wrought iron fencing in newer communities. It's healthy, vigorous, fairly heavily flowering in a nice color and large flowers. Pretty much the perfect climber for smaller areas which can't handle a barn eater.
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The name Ketchup & Mustard doesn't bother me, but certain first ladies are not allowed in my garden because of their husbands' sins. I recently broke down and bought JACsegra, I feel terrible giving money to that institution's agenda, but I bought it end of the season discounted 50% off, so hopefully the money didn't get into their coffers. I refuse to call JACsegra by its exhibition name, totally creeps me out.
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I understand your sentiments, but is that one really any more offensive than any of these? JACbush, AROnance, JACorbet, JACtanre, JACurnam, JACgray. None of these have ever, nor will ever, grow in my garden.
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I find all of them equally offensive, but thankfully, the ones you listed are mediocre roses that are as odious as their namesakes. JACsegra is an excellent rose by all accounts and I like the color too. It's a shame I can't find Karen Blixen sold anywhere, because I'd rather have bought that as a lesser evil.
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#22 of 29 posted
23 MAR 16 by
Jay-Jay
Karen Blixen is a rather nice rose in my opinion, but doesn't perform that well. Really good performers are Ingrid Bergman and Ambiente. Pumping out flowers all season long, in contrary to Karen Blixen. Parole is a very good-one too, with huge well formed flowers and as a bonus a very good scent!!!
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#23 of 29 posted
24 MAR 16 by
Raynyk
It's almost a bit embarrasing but I'm a sucker for the romantic sound of the old french roses, Souvenir de la Malmaison, Madame Legras de St. Germain, Ghislaine de Feligonde, Belle Sans Flatterie etc. I usually don't read up on the history of the names, or the persons and places behind it as it's mostly a letdown. But if I would have two equal roses and one of them is named Pink Sweetie and the other Souvenir de la Reine de Senteur I always go for the later one. A bit silly maybe and I'm not even frenchspeaking.
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Spot on with the names Kim, I am so tired of the sappy valentines day cliche names. They need something edgier, we have way too many boring rose names.
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#24 of 29 posted
7 APR 17 by
a_carl76
I believe I found this rose being sold at a big box store here in Iowa in the bag with sawdust under the name of "Gold and Fire". Isn't it sad that I think this name is better. It isn't blooming yet but the description does seem to fit so I bought it to see if it really is. I also found that they are selling Tropical Lightening as Climbing Lightening. Unlike many other places, the bagged roses at this place are usually correctly labeled and I was willing to shell out the $3.99 to test it out.
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There are three historic daffodils from the 1820s, I believe, named 'Butter and Eggs', 'Eggs and Bacon' and 'Codlins and Cream'. So, K&M may someday seem merely quaint--those silly early 21stC Americans you know--, and the name is at least a welcome change from the Romance Novel Soft Core Porn school of marketing. The rose seems very handsome, but I wonder how it might perform in a cold climate. Can anyone compare it with 'Kleopatra', which I think has similar coloring?
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Dianthus 'Sops in Wine' is older still.
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I bought it BECAUSE of the name, I am so incredibly tired of the boring bourgeois hallmark lovey dovey names I could die lol......it seems like the rose industry is really missing an opportunity to make some of the roses more interesting just by naming this something better that goofy valentines day cliche names.
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#29 of 29 posted
yesterday by
HubertG
I don't particularly like the name but that could be because the word ketchup really isn't in my vocabulary. In Australia this rose might have been more appropriately called 'Tomato Sauce & Mustard', but that just isn't catchy enough. Our mustard isn't normally that yellow either. ;-) I don't like the modern practice of renaming roses in different countries in principle preferring the original name, unless it's terrible, but one advantage of that practice is if you don't like the name you can privately call it by one of the others. I dislike the name 'Dee-Lish' and thankfully that rose is sold in Australia as 'Forget Me Not' but I'd think it would have still done well here with the original name 'Line Renaud'. So of one silly name, one sappy name and the original name of someone who isn't well-known here, I'd still prefer the original, but at least I can choose. I doubt many people in Australia knew that Peter Frankenfeld was a German comedian but that didn't stop it from become popular. A really good rose with a not-so-good name will still sell given time. My personal peeve in rose naming is using an exclamation mark. Please stop that! It's just so silly!
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Initial post
yesterday by
Lex-CC
Hi! I've just started with rose breeding. I'm in the UK. I've just crossed a few roses in my garden and hope to collect the hips at the start of October. I'm trying to think through the best plan as I will be away for a couple of weeks in early October.... Here is my current draft plan: At the start of October, remove the successful hips, wash briefly in dilute Milton (hypochlorite), rinse in water and store each hip in it's own individual little bags in the fridge whilst I'm away. Then, extract the seeds from the hip, wash the seeds in Milton and rinse in water. Place the sets of seeds in individual little bags with a damp piece of tissue, in the fridge, for a couple of weeks. Then plant out seeds in a tray and leave in the garage over winter. Please can people advise if this seems reasonable. I don't want to lose my first precious crosses! Thanks very much in advance.
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#1 of 3 posted
yesterday by
HubertG
Sounds OK. I'm in Australia and I don't bother with the fridge treatment. I do use dilute bleachy water to clean the seeds once they are removed from the hip, then rinse them with clean water, let them dry on some tissue then plant as soon as I can.
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#2 of 3 posted
yesterday by
Lex-CC
Thanks very much for the information.
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#3 of 3 posted
yesterday by
Lee H.
I’d recommend joining the Rose Hybridizers Association (rosebreeders dot org), and getting their book “Rose Hybridizing For Beginners”. Lots of good ideas, and they have an active forum on such subjects.
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Which roses give you the longest lasting blooms (on the plant, not necessarily in a vase)?
The best in my SE England garden are: Dublin Bay, each flower lasts 4 weeks Parade, 3 weeks Ginger Syllabub, 2 weeks Elmshorn, 2 weeks (I don't seem to notice the bushes as much as the climbers.)
I think longer lasting flowers make for the most color. Blooms that only last a few days usually repeat faster and can be very floriferous (my stand outs are For Yours Eyes Only and Alibaba), but I really prefer longer lasting blooms. I can’t understand why no one talks about this! I would always go for the longest lasting flowers when buying a rose if this info was available, but it is quite hard to find.
Most newer rose varieties only last a few days each. I think in recent decades, rose breeders have concentrated on healthy foliage and fragrance, whereas in the 1950s-70s long lasting blooms seem to have been a higher priority, and most last a week or more. Older roses than that I think vary by family, but I don't have a lot of experience with them.
Thoughts?
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#1 of 4 posted
4 days ago by
HubertG
At the moment in winter in Sydney I've noticed my 'Europeana' is giving bloom that doesn't seem to age, lasting for weeks.
I have a pale pink seedling which I bred, 'General Schablikine' x 'Lorraine Lee', which has given winter flowers lasting in good condition for nearly four weeks. It was surprising since neither parent lasts that long, 'General Schablikine' in particular lasting maybe four days at best.
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Thanks for your reply. Interesting that the seedling can differ from the parents in this way. Should I look forward to your new rose coming on the market someday? ;)
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#3 of 4 posted
3 days ago by
HubertG
Christineb, it's just a hobby for me, but if I did ever produce something really worthwhile I wouldn't rule out trying to introduce it.
Regarding long lasting roses, I'd say probably any rose initially bred for the florist industry that has become popular in gardens stands a good chance of lasting longer than average. I bought on impulse 'Our Vanilla' a few weeks ago, and it is supposed to be such a type of rose, and it is described as having papery petals. It's already sending out shoots, so I'll let you know later on how long they last.
I remember reading an old reference that 'Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria' was outstanding in how well it lasted. I tried growing it years ago but rarely got a flower.
'Peter Frankenfeld' is popular in Australia and for me it lasts well on the bush. It does have quite a lot of the early twentieth century American florist roses in its background, which might explain that.
'Camp David' is another one I grow with lasting flowers. I even made a post a couple of years ago about mine lasting two and a half weeks. It's a surprisingly good winter flowerer here too.
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#4 of 4 posted
3 days ago by
Lee H.
From casual observation, my top 4:
Beauty Secret Stars ‘n’ Stripes Florentina O.L. Weeks
The latter is very resistant to fading and bluing, and may also be the most vigorous and floriferous hybrid tea in my garden. Yet I’ve found little about it in the literature.
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Initial post
9 days ago by
fenriz
This rose is apparently mislabelled as Rosa x centifolia, it lacks the moss of Rosa x centifolia “Simplex”/La Louise if that one has it but they have some similarities yet it lacks reddish thorns, but it’s standing a little shady. Or even rosa gallica or some root base? The flower was photographed with flash, the colour is a tiny bit less intense in vivo. I thought about r. rugosa var. rubra but it lacks the bushiness (2m high) and had no hips and it grows offshoots too. May y’all help me in the identification of this rose.
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#1 of 4 posted
8 days ago by
HubertG
The foliage makes it look a bit like one of the Rugosa roses.
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#2 of 4 posted
8 days ago by
fenriz
Thank you, after some reconsideration i think it’s a Rugosa too, the ofshoots we’re probably cut off in time.
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#3 of 4 posted
8 days ago by
HubertG
Maybe it was a Rugosa root stock that has taken over, something like 'Hollandica', although I have no idea if that or anything similar is still used in Europe for that purpose.
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#4 of 4 posted
7 days ago by
fenriz
A misidentification seems more likely, shouldn’t be the first time in a botanic garden. As rootstocks the industry prefers roses with less thorns but stranger things happened. ‘La Louise’ growing there by chance would be such a thing.
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