HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent today HIDE POSTS
Initial post today by HubertG
This rose is really very European looking to me, just like an old Tea Rose. Does anyone know its provenance, beyond being collected by Dr. Ueda?. Is it really from China? Even though ThomasR's rose is blush-coloured, the earliest photo here from John Hook is very reminiscent of 'Mrs. Herbert Stevens' in form and colour.
Reply #1 of 3 posted today by ThomasR
Hello HubertG, I was just trying to figure out if the rose I am growing was Chun Shui Lu Bo. The pictures I posted showed the first flower of an own-root rose, so it may be early for conclusions... That said, I was looking at the Blush Maman Cochet pictures and references, and I can't help thinking it might be my rose. The 1918 reference depicts waxy petals, which is quite what I felt. A lot of them. Also, the inner sepals were very ornamental when they opened, velvety tender green. Very distinctly red new growth. The scent reminded me of Honey/ Heliotrope, not overpowering. What do you think ?
Reply #2 of 3 posted today by ThomasR
I had two logographic descriptions of Chun Shui Lu Bo automatically translated, and both said (in French) "getting red when half-open", maybe referring to blushing ? I do not grow Mrs Herbert Stevens, but I'll post pictures as soon as the buds open. Also, there is a location mentioned in the description page.
Best regards, Thomas.
Reply #3 of 3 posted today by HubertG
Hi ThomasR,
If it's a very young plant then it might not produce typical flowers yet so, like you say, perhaps too soon to be conclusive. However, my first impression is that it isn't 'William R. Smith'/'Blush Maman Cochet'. I have a very young cutting-grown plant of that with a bud on it, so I'll post a photo of that tomorrow to compare. I wouldn't say that 'W. R. Smith' smells like honey and heliotrope. It has a scent similar to 'Maman Cochet' to my nose, only weaker. Not very strongly scented at all.
When you say that you are trying to identify this rose, did it come mislabelled from a nursery or was it saved from someone's garden?
most recent 3 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 3 days ago by HubertG
What a horrible name for a rather nice rose!
Reply #1 of 7 posted 3 days ago by Give me caffeine
Depends on your perspective.
Lucifer (/ˈluːsɪfər/ 'light-bringer', corresponding to the Greek name Ἑωσφόρος, 'dawn-bringer', for the same planet) is a Latin name for the planet Venus in its morning appearances and is often used for mythological and religious figures associated with the planet...

Interpretations of a similar term in the Hebrew Bible, translated in the King James Version as "Lucifer" as a proper name, led to a Christian tradition of applying the name Lucifer, and its associated stories of a fall from heaven, to Satan, but modern scholarship generally translates the term in the relevant Bible passage, (Isaiah 14:12), as "morning star" or "shining one" rather than as a proper name, "Lucifer".

Although if someone named a rose 'Morning Star' or 'Shining One' I doubt anybody would complain. Which is amusing, when you think of it.
Reply #2 of 7 posted 3 days ago by HubertG
Well, the association is still there. I guess it won't exactly be a commercial success if it's ever available outside of Japan and isn't renamed.
Reply #3 of 7 posted 3 days ago by Give me caffeine
The Church of Satan and The Satanic Temple would probably be enthusiastic. You'd probably bag a few Rolling Stones fans too. The Vatican might not be so enthused, and I suspect the US evangelicals would be apoplectic (but then they usually are).
Reply #4 of 7 posted 3 days ago by HubertG
I can imagine a nice bed of 'Lucifer' and perhaps Pedro Dot's 'Satan' out the front of their satanic temple, lol!

It's not a rose for me in any case.
Reply #5 of 7 posted 3 days ago by Give me caffeine
'Satan' was bred by Lorenzo Pahissa. ;)
Which I just found out, having been curious enough to look it up. It's a gorgeous rose.
Reply #6 of 7 posted 3 days ago by HubertG
Oh, my mistake; it wasn't Dot after all. Yes, nice rose, horrible name and marketing strategy.
Reply #7 of 7 posted 3 days ago by Margaret Furness
There are worse names. Eg Seduction (which was also the model of a car I used to drive). French Kiss. Others I appear to have deleted from my memory: more like the names of perfumes than things you would ask a nurseryman / woman for.
most recent 7 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 7 days ago by HubertG
This season this rose produced one ripe hip which contained one normal-looking seed. I've only ever seen one other hip on this rose before and that was years ago. Generally, it simply doesn't produce any hips.
most recent 8 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 9 days ago by Fox84

I need some help for plant identification. I bought a David Austin Darcey Bussell Rose from a local nursery. But I really doubt I received the right rose.

Could someone identify this rose as Darcey Bussell? I do not think it is. I came across some pictures on this website of Dame de Coeur, and the rose petals look very similar. Although I see pictures of this rose which are deep red, I also see more pinkish one.

It was labeled as Darcey Bussell when I bought it, but both roses begin with 2 of the same characters "DA" So, in that case it makes total sense it was mislabeled.

Thank you all for your help :)
Reply #1 of 4 posted 8 days ago by HubertG
I'd ask the nursery from which you bought it. It's most likely another rose that they sell, so that might help narrow down the possibilities.
Edited to add: Your rose doesn't look like Darcey Bussell to me just looking at the photographs here, but I've never grown it.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 8 days ago by Give me caffeine
Yes, ask the nursery. I once ordered Chanelle and got Charisma instead*. The reason was that neither had much on them at the time (bare root, winter) and Charisma was the next one in their range after Chanelle, so they got mixed up at the border between the two when they dug them up. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say your mystery rose might be the next one in their range before or after Darcey Bussell, in alphabetical order.

*This turned out fine, since we decided we liked Charisma anyway. Probably wouldn't have heard of it otherwise.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 8 days ago by Fox84
Thank you both. Yes, I contacted the nursery already, but they did not respond in the proper way. They only said that bloom of Darcey Bussell is fuller than the pictures I sent. But they did not confirm or denied it was Darcey Bussell or another rose. This forum was another try to find things out.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 8 days ago by HubertG
That attitude from the nursery would annoy me - not very professional in my opinion. If they have an online catalogue of roses I'd try to go through that to see which matches most closely to your rose (which doesn't even look like the style of an English Rose to me) and then compare to other photos here. Even if you are happy with your rose it would still be nice to know the true variety's name.
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